Before I say anything about this (awesome) article, I want to say thanks for the outstanding conversation with Mike Renner of PFF. Up until 10 days ago I couldn't tell you who Renner was, but PFF YouTube videos of him and his Odd Couple partner Austin Gayle are every bit as fantastic as you said in the podcast and Renner has quickly become my favorite draft expert. When a guy will say on air, regarding Richie Grant at the Senior Bowl practices, that "every other Safety looked like shit in 1 on 1s" then he's my guy. Also, "off platform arm talent" in describing Zach Wilson to you was a gem. And his Draft Guide is every bit as good as you say as well. So thanks for the terrific podcasts!
Funny that you mention Bridgewater as a possibility to come back to Minnesota because I'm watching Gayle and Renner right now talking about how much offensive talent Carolina has and how they shot themselves in the foot getting Bridgewater. Fascinating because:
a) Is Carolina a legitimate trade partner for Cousins if they lose out on the top 4 QBs in the draft?
b) They point out that getting Teddy was a big mistake for Carolina, so mediocre that he can't use all that talent to get you to even .500 as a team, but also not bad enough for you to lose 14 games...Honesty about Teddy, thank you Austin and Mike.
c) Forget the fantasy trades to the Niners or the Colts, this in the new number one. If the trade happens we're out from under Cousins' contract, Teddy is bad enough to go 4-12 with this team to get a top 5 pick for a QB in 2022, and that record gets Mike Zimmer canned. That's a Win-Win-Win.
There's so much more great stuff in your article to get to, especially the whole thing on achieving a playoff caliber points differential, but I'll spare you the full phone book tonight. Thanks again.
Thanks so much Rob! Glad you enjoyed the podcast. I totally agree with Gayle and Renner on the Panthers... not only did they sign a middle of the road QB who got them to the 8th draft pick, they tried to trade it for another QB who wouldn't have made it any better. I'm not sure why the Panthers are so unrealistic but why not at least think abut taking advantage of that?
I don't agree that Teddy would make them 4-12. The Panthers' roster was so much worse than the Vikings and they lost 2 more games and he realistically should have won a few more games that they were close. His overall numbers were basically Jared Goff-esque. I'd say if he's the QB next year and they had a good team, we're talking 8-8. But the biggest benefit is that they wouldn't be locked in and could have flexibility to trade up for a QB in the future
Yeah, I may have been exaggerating a bit on Teddy and the record, but it's all in service of my wish to have both Cousins and Zimmer gone in two years. So you should really let me have the fantasy like you and with the Vikings taking a high-end WR in the first round and running 3 receiver sets consistently. Both of us have to accept it's not happening in the near-term.
Matthew, I subscribed because I respect your work, guests and perspective but I’m growing weary of the KC narrative as an almost constant theme. I get it but I need more than one story line if I’m to renew. Thanks for your strong efforts.
I agree. There’s the constant talk that a rookie QB deal is the answer to all the problems. Unfortunately, the vast majority of first round QBs fail. Somehow many of the top teams manage to maintain strong rosters with an expensive QB. They obviously don’t overpay their other vets like the Vikings did with Barr and Rudolph.
I guess my question would be... how many QBs similar to Cousins have made it with a big contract? It's an absolutely justifiable opinion. I'm also pretty sure that I've spent hundreds of words and hours talking on the podcast about ways to make Cousins and the team around him better. I'm the one who says "lean into the Kirk." I think some people really like Cousins and want to see him win here so there's a pretty strong defensiveness when people are talking about moving him.. And that's totally fine, we can have that discussion. This comment section is great for discourse. But I'm not OK with people inferring that I have some grudge against Cousins or that I'm pushing a "narrative."
You have covered “leaning into the Kirk” often and I’m sorry to imply otherwise. I personally like that strategy. I’ve been a Vikings fan for over 30 years and have grown tired of instability at the QB position. Now that we finally have a consistent top 10 quarterback that stays healthy despite wretched interior pass pro, it seems like many (not including you, because you do cover both sides) think he’s the problem. That being said, I agree Spielman did an awful contract extension that placed a ridiculous cap hit of $45 mil in 2022. I’m assuming he believed the salary cap would explode in 2 years so he justified kicking the can down the road. If he doesn’t fix that, we need a new GM who can.
I wasn't offended Colin, just pointing out that I try to cover all angels :)
I think these two things can be true: 1) he's talented enough to win with 2) the contract makes that tough. I definitely don't think you're wrong for believing there are ways to work around 2 or for wanting QB stability.
If that’s your real name that’s awesome, if you are really Colin Farrell then even more awesome as phone booth is very underrated. I agree that having a strong roster and a qb that is highly paid is doable but I think Matt’s point is that in recent history the ability to make a mega roster with rookie scale qb money is a much easier path than creating and subsequently maintaining a strong roster on all sides. Sometimes it works both ways, rookie scale mega talent like Mahomes or less talented but pretty good like Allen, and then you have a Goff in the super bowl with an awesome roster around him and as soon as you pay him you lose Olinemen and have to sell off some of your key pieces. Just look at the Vikings as undeniable proof in the other direction, Kirk is not “the problem” his contract is. We are looking at letting Reiff walk who gave up a sack last year on an already poor oline just to get back in the black because of the highly paid qb who isn’t Brady or Rodgers. But coller certainly has spent equal or more time writing and speaking about going all in on offense with Kirk all the way back to Purple Daily. Get another wr3, fix the oline, and change the sliders from run to pass.
Also OTC projects 2. A 4th and 6th. The 7th does not make it to the top 32 picks. We also should get a 6th for Weatherly, but it gets cancelled by Pierce who opted out. Seems like Pierce should go against 2022 picks. Can you take this up with the nfl so we can get another 6th? Lol.
Ok I have to vent here. I actually pulled into a parking lot so that I could type this. If Mike Zimmer and Rick Run back the same product with the same philosophy it will be completely self sabotaging for their careers. If little Kubs is handcuffed into running the ball 90 percent of the time on 2nd and short and second and long, the offense is at best going to be around 11th. With Hunter and Pierce and Barr and some drafted 3 tech, the defense will get better but that will bring them to average. From 31st to let’s say 15th. That is not a formula to win in the playoffs. 11th and 15th ranked teams are 8-8 9-7. Why on earth would that be ok with Mike and Rick if their job is on the line? How about they either A go all in with Kirk do some self scouting and get closer to a top 5 offense. Or B trade Kirk, get out from under his contract, take a deep breath and continue to build a strong young roster. For Pete’s sake i feel like I’m taking crazy pills here. Trade Kirk for a second, fourth, and Teddy and you will be in a better spot on so many levels. Do you know how crazy it makes me as a football coach albeit HS to believe that a team does not self scout and realize that a few tweaks on certain down decisions could lead to wins!!!?? Phew ok I had to get that out. Lol
Purple Insider appreciates your commitment to driving safely and not ranting in the comment section while driving. Also, terrific Zoolander reference. Deep breaths Barry! I think you hit on the head exactly how many Vikings fans are feeling about the offense and where this appears to be heading. They can change it, but will they?
This has been a great series about every position from players to management not a thing will change until Zimmer comes off his high horse and gets away from his run 1st mentality and allows the offense to open up. Otherwise I think Jefferson will walk out the door like Diggs did.
Zimmer/Rick are in year two of their three year extension, this is year seven of Zimmer as HC and year eleventy thousand of Rick as GM. At some point the owners have to look at the body of work and say “this is getting a championship here.” Last year’s “reload not a rebuild” was an unmitigated disaster. It’s time for smart bold moves by our GM (trade Kirk-he’s at his highest trade value) or settle in as a potential WC and never seriously challenge the Packers for the North much less a SB.
So the extensions actually kick in this year. 2020 was the last year of their previous deals. I agree with your premise though that 2021 will be a year ownership likely wants to see potential to be a championship team
Before I say anything about this (awesome) article, I want to say thanks for the outstanding conversation with Mike Renner of PFF. Up until 10 days ago I couldn't tell you who Renner was, but PFF YouTube videos of him and his Odd Couple partner Austin Gayle are every bit as fantastic as you said in the podcast and Renner has quickly become my favorite draft expert. When a guy will say on air, regarding Richie Grant at the Senior Bowl practices, that "every other Safety looked like shit in 1 on 1s" then he's my guy. Also, "off platform arm talent" in describing Zach Wilson to you was a gem. And his Draft Guide is every bit as good as you say as well. So thanks for the terrific podcasts!
Funny that you mention Bridgewater as a possibility to come back to Minnesota because I'm watching Gayle and Renner right now talking about how much offensive talent Carolina has and how they shot themselves in the foot getting Bridgewater. Fascinating because:
a) Is Carolina a legitimate trade partner for Cousins if they lose out on the top 4 QBs in the draft?
b) They point out that getting Teddy was a big mistake for Carolina, so mediocre that he can't use all that talent to get you to even .500 as a team, but also not bad enough for you to lose 14 games...Honesty about Teddy, thank you Austin and Mike.
c) Forget the fantasy trades to the Niners or the Colts, this in the new number one. If the trade happens we're out from under Cousins' contract, Teddy is bad enough to go 4-12 with this team to get a top 5 pick for a QB in 2022, and that record gets Mike Zimmer canned. That's a Win-Win-Win.
There's so much more great stuff in your article to get to, especially the whole thing on achieving a playoff caliber points differential, but I'll spare you the full phone book tonight. Thanks again.
Thanks so much Rob! Glad you enjoyed the podcast. I totally agree with Gayle and Renner on the Panthers... not only did they sign a middle of the road QB who got them to the 8th draft pick, they tried to trade it for another QB who wouldn't have made it any better. I'm not sure why the Panthers are so unrealistic but why not at least think abut taking advantage of that?
I don't agree that Teddy would make them 4-12. The Panthers' roster was so much worse than the Vikings and they lost 2 more games and he realistically should have won a few more games that they were close. His overall numbers were basically Jared Goff-esque. I'd say if he's the QB next year and they had a good team, we're talking 8-8. But the biggest benefit is that they wouldn't be locked in and could have flexibility to trade up for a QB in the future
Yeah, I may have been exaggerating a bit on Teddy and the record, but it's all in service of my wish to have both Cousins and Zimmer gone in two years. So you should really let me have the fantasy like you and with the Vikings taking a high-end WR in the first round and running 3 receiver sets consistently. Both of us have to accept it's not happening in the near-term.
haha deal
Matthew, I subscribed because I respect your work, guests and perspective but I’m growing weary of the KC narrative as an almost constant theme. I get it but I need more than one story line if I’m to renew. Thanks for your strong efforts.
I wrote about 20,000 words covering every single position and every single player on the team
I agree. There’s the constant talk that a rookie QB deal is the answer to all the problems. Unfortunately, the vast majority of first round QBs fail. Somehow many of the top teams manage to maintain strong rosters with an expensive QB. They obviously don’t overpay their other vets like the Vikings did with Barr and Rudolph.
I guess my question would be... how many QBs similar to Cousins have made it with a big contract? It's an absolutely justifiable opinion. I'm also pretty sure that I've spent hundreds of words and hours talking on the podcast about ways to make Cousins and the team around him better. I'm the one who says "lean into the Kirk." I think some people really like Cousins and want to see him win here so there's a pretty strong defensiveness when people are talking about moving him.. And that's totally fine, we can have that discussion. This comment section is great for discourse. But I'm not OK with people inferring that I have some grudge against Cousins or that I'm pushing a "narrative."
You have covered “leaning into the Kirk” often and I’m sorry to imply otherwise. I personally like that strategy. I’ve been a Vikings fan for over 30 years and have grown tired of instability at the QB position. Now that we finally have a consistent top 10 quarterback that stays healthy despite wretched interior pass pro, it seems like many (not including you, because you do cover both sides) think he’s the problem. That being said, I agree Spielman did an awful contract extension that placed a ridiculous cap hit of $45 mil in 2022. I’m assuming he believed the salary cap would explode in 2 years so he justified kicking the can down the road. If he doesn’t fix that, we need a new GM who can.
I wasn't offended Colin, just pointing out that I try to cover all angels :)
I think these two things can be true: 1) he's talented enough to win with 2) the contract makes that tough. I definitely don't think you're wrong for believing there are ways to work around 2 or for wanting QB stability.
If that’s your real name that’s awesome, if you are really Colin Farrell then even more awesome as phone booth is very underrated. I agree that having a strong roster and a qb that is highly paid is doable but I think Matt’s point is that in recent history the ability to make a mega roster with rookie scale qb money is a much easier path than creating and subsequently maintaining a strong roster on all sides. Sometimes it works both ways, rookie scale mega talent like Mahomes or less talented but pretty good like Allen, and then you have a Goff in the super bowl with an awesome roster around him and as soon as you pay him you lose Olinemen and have to sell off some of your key pieces. Just look at the Vikings as undeniable proof in the other direction, Kirk is not “the problem” his contract is. We are looking at letting Reiff walk who gave up a sack last year on an already poor oline just to get back in the black because of the highly paid qb who isn’t Brady or Rodgers. But coller certainly has spent equal or more time writing and speaking about going all in on offense with Kirk all the way back to Purple Daily. Get another wr3, fix the oline, and change the sliders from run to pass.
Matthew, one small correction
We have a 5th rounder from Steelers through the Ravens. But, only 2 5ths.
1st Own
3rd Own
3rd via Ravens (Ngakoue)
4th Own
4th via Bears (2020 5th Stefon)
4th via Bills (Stefon)
4th (Comp T Waynes)
5th Steelers via Ravens (2020 6th Stefon)
5th Own
6th Own
6th (Comp Mack A)
7th Own
The Vikings website had what you had, but corrected now.
Thank you for the correction Rob. Will fix
Also OTC projects 2. A 4th and 6th. The 7th does not make it to the top 32 picks. We also should get a 6th for Weatherly, but it gets cancelled by Pierce who opted out. Seems like Pierce should go against 2022 picks. Can you take this up with the nfl so we can get another 6th? Lol.
Also, great article. I vote for last one. You convinced me. Go for 3rd wr and beef up line. Go offense.
Ok I have to vent here. I actually pulled into a parking lot so that I could type this. If Mike Zimmer and Rick Run back the same product with the same philosophy it will be completely self sabotaging for their careers. If little Kubs is handcuffed into running the ball 90 percent of the time on 2nd and short and second and long, the offense is at best going to be around 11th. With Hunter and Pierce and Barr and some drafted 3 tech, the defense will get better but that will bring them to average. From 31st to let’s say 15th. That is not a formula to win in the playoffs. 11th and 15th ranked teams are 8-8 9-7. Why on earth would that be ok with Mike and Rick if their job is on the line? How about they either A go all in with Kirk do some self scouting and get closer to a top 5 offense. Or B trade Kirk, get out from under his contract, take a deep breath and continue to build a strong young roster. For Pete’s sake i feel like I’m taking crazy pills here. Trade Kirk for a second, fourth, and Teddy and you will be in a better spot on so many levels. Do you know how crazy it makes me as a football coach albeit HS to believe that a team does not self scout and realize that a few tweaks on certain down decisions could lead to wins!!!?? Phew ok I had to get that out. Lol
Purple Insider appreciates your commitment to driving safely and not ranting in the comment section while driving. Also, terrific Zoolander reference. Deep breaths Barry! I think you hit on the head exactly how many Vikings fans are feeling about the offense and where this appears to be heading. They can change it, but will they?
This has been a great series about every position from players to management not a thing will change until Zimmer comes off his high horse and gets away from his run 1st mentality and allows the offense to open up. Otherwise I think Jefferson will walk out the door like Diggs did.
Thanks so much Ron. I think they can continue to run effectively and still lean into the efficiency of their passing game and improve
Zimmer/Rick are in year two of their three year extension, this is year seven of Zimmer as HC and year eleventy thousand of Rick as GM. At some point the owners have to look at the body of work and say “this is getting a championship here.” Last year’s “reload not a rebuild” was an unmitigated disaster. It’s time for smart bold moves by our GM (trade Kirk-he’s at his highest trade value) or settle in as a potential WC and never seriously challenge the Packers for the North much less a SB.
So the extensions actually kick in this year. 2020 was the last year of their previous deals. I agree with your premise though that 2021 will be a year ownership likely wants to see potential to be a championship team
I was informed there would be no math.gif
hahaha
*not getting, damn phone