When I read your various analysis, I often find myself scratching my head and wondering, why did we get rid of Tom Johnson, Richardson, Easton, Waverly?
I think..Johnson just got old, Richardson wanted more money and didn't play the run, Weatherly was in my opinion a below average starter/good role player who got decent money that the Vikes were not willing to pay... I think they got outbid for Easton as well...
When Pierce opted out I thought the Vikings would sign a veteran FA NT or 3T to a one year contract, I’m still surprised they didn’t (Domato Peko was my choice)
Really great article.. very informative and great content for avid fans.
I think Hunter has zero leverage in 2020 and will be back maybe with some sort of restructure but will be back. What I wonder about is how much better players like Watts and Odenigbo play when they are playing next to guys like pierce and Hunter rather than Johnson, Stephan, holmes and Wonnum...
Matt nice work as always. This isn’t really about the oline but I thought I would get your thoughts. I’ve become completely addicted to PFF mock draft simulator, thank you and Cronin for that! One name to keep an eye on and maybe start researching is Jamie Newman. I remember watching him vs NC State in 19 and thinking oh my god is this kid good. Now NC st might’ve been awful but wow what a performance. That fact that Georgia wanted him means they felt the same way. At 6’4 230 and mobile he could be the perfect guy to pick and let marinate behind cousins.
Thanks Barry... I'm extremely interested in Newman as a 3rd rounder if he ends up there. Has all the physical tools of a first round pick but won't be picked there because of the opt out. It seems like the perfect situation for a vikings team that can't afford to take a QB in the 1st
Topic for discussion. I'd love to hear everyone's' thoughts on this.
Let's say Reiff is extended and the Free Agent Signings are something like:
-Veteran Average Starting Corner Back,
-Veteran Average Starting Guard
-and a couple camp body/reclamation project DL/WR (The Tajae Sharps and Eddie Yarbroughs of the World)
This would seem to indicate that the main objective of the draft would be defensive line.
Would you rather...
-Select Rousseau/Paye in the first and find an inside out rusher like Jaylen Twymann on day 2? or
-Select Barmore in the first and get the EDGE who drops on day 2. Maybe you trade up into the second, and make a run at Jaelan Phillips, or maybe Patrick Jones comes all the way to 78.
I've heard it everywhere (Including on here and on the Prospect Podcast) that this is a very good EDGE class and a weaker DT class. This leads me to think that you should put a priority on getting the best 3-tech in the draft. This is especially true if you can trade back a few spots and accumulate another pick that can be used for trading up on day 2.
That said, the scouting reports on the top 2 EDGEs are phenomenal, and I think either would look good across from Hunter.
Thank you! Glad you're enjoying it... I tend to agree with you on the 3tech point. They're just so much more scarce than edge rushers right now. I also think the presence of so many QBs and WRs is going to push every other position down so there will be some rushers in the 3rd round that might surprise us. I'd lean toward getting 1 or 2 veterans in free agency for cheap and drafting a DE in the third than going all-in on a first rounder there.
I love your post and your "would you rather" with the specific names you mention and Barmore looks like the second coming of Chris Jones so in that sense, sure take him in the first. But there is an argument to go the other way, and that's part of the fun of this so I will make that argument.
If Barmore is Jones than you can look at Paye as another Everson Griffen. And a lot of this praise for Edge players includes 3-4 outside linebacker types so the Edge class isn't actually as deep on true 4-3 DEs as it sounds. And there are more good 3Ts in the top 100-120 than it's being given credit for.
For 3Ts I looked up rankings by Dane Brugler of The Athletic, PFF, and The Draft Network and will list those rankings with the player. So you have:
Barmore - 18/15/38
Nixon - 39/67/74
Onwuzurike - 43/50/56
Tufele - 69/112/39
Tuipulotu - 72/120/79
McNeil - 97/45/103
Wilson - NA/61/106
Twyman - NA/107/113
Stills - NA/163/108
The last 3 all are reported as spot pass rushers while the rest can play all 3 downs. Point is there are some solid prospects in the second and third rounds and while it may not have two top 15 selections like last year with Brown and Kinlaw it looks pretty comparable otherwise.
Looking at Edge players there some who are 4-3 DEs like the guys you mentioned and a few others in the top 100 or so:
Paye
Rousseau
Phillips
Jones II
Dimukeje
Basham Jr
Perkins
Weaver
Edge Tweeners, could get bigger and stronger or could just be rush linebacker
Oweh
Tryon
Smith
And a lot of Edge guys who are really 3-4 linebacker types
Ossai
Ojulari
Roche
Rashed Jr.
So there might be more 4-3 DEs than 3T DTs, but there aren't that many more. In the eyes of this wannabe draft expert (aka a very good reader) anyway. Hell, I want my cake and to eat it too. Somehow Rick drops way back in the first to pick up a second and then moves up in the third and comes away with a OL Vera-Tucker/Mayfield/Davis, a 3T Nixon/Onwuzurike/McNeil/Twyman and a DE Jones/Tryon/Basham. He can then coast on his next dozen picks on draft night and still be a hero again in my eyes.
You make a good point that when I say it’s weak at 3T, I really mean there aren’t multiple guys that are going to go in the first round. It’s not that there’s no talent in the draft at all
I like the draft you laid out as well. It's crazy to me how many highly rated DL are coming out of Pitt this year. I know some of them opted out, but it still surprises me that they didn't make a bit more noise in the ACC this year.
Next to a QB, Dline and Oline are the most important position groups in the NFL. But they're the positions where Spielman always tries to spend the least in money and draft capital. He spends top dollar on less important positions like linebacker, safety, wide receiver, running back, and tight end and then expects to make do with 4th and 6th round and undrafted linemen. No surprise the team gets destroyed at the line of scrimmage on a weekly basis and doesn't meet expectations. Football is simple, if you dominate the trenches and have a QB who makes the easy to average plays and avoids bone headed mistakes, then you'll be successful. Spielman pretends it's complicated, so the dumb fans will continue to think he's the Wizard of OZ when he gets lucky and hits on a Justin Jefferson every once in a while.
Also, the fact that the Vikings couldn't figure out that Ngakoue does not play the run well with four years of NFL tape before bringing him in, spending 8M$ of cap space and losing 40 picks of draft equity, in exchange for six games and 1 win, makes Spielman and Zimmer look like incompetents.
Well, the offensive line has a 1st rounder, 2 2nd rounders and a $50M left tackle... it isn't lack of spending/drafting, it's not filling the weakest spot or focusing on pass protection. On the defensive line, I get why they would try to draft guys in the mid rounds because they were set there for so long but the problem was that they needed somebody to be a home run pick and they all faltered. You're right on about Ngakoue. Even people from Jacksonville questioned whether he'd fit in Minnesota because he was basically a linebacker there
When I read your various analysis, I often find myself scratching my head and wondering, why did we get rid of Tom Johnson, Richardson, Easton, Waverly?
I think..Johnson just got old, Richardson wanted more money and didn't play the run, Weatherly was in my opinion a below average starter/good role player who got decent money that the Vikes were not willing to pay... I think they got outbid for Easton as well...
Duh... I meant Weatherly. If we cut players who go on to other teams and still perform subpar, I get it. But Remmers started at LT for the Chiefs!!!!!
When Pierce opted out I thought the Vikings would sign a veteran FA NT or 3T to a one year contract, I’m still surprised they didn’t (Domato Peko was my choice)
Really great article.. very informative and great content for avid fans.
I think Hunter has zero leverage in 2020 and will be back maybe with some sort of restructure but will be back. What I wonder about is how much better players like Watts and Odenigbo play when they are playing next to guys like pierce and Hunter rather than Johnson, Stephan, holmes and Wonnum...
Matt nice work as always. This isn’t really about the oline but I thought I would get your thoughts. I’ve become completely addicted to PFF mock draft simulator, thank you and Cronin for that! One name to keep an eye on and maybe start researching is Jamie Newman. I remember watching him vs NC State in 19 and thinking oh my god is this kid good. Now NC st might’ve been awful but wow what a performance. That fact that Georgia wanted him means they felt the same way. At 6’4 230 and mobile he could be the perfect guy to pick and let marinate behind cousins.
Thanks Barry... I'm extremely interested in Newman as a 3rd rounder if he ends up there. Has all the physical tools of a first round pick but won't be picked there because of the opt out. It seems like the perfect situation for a vikings team that can't afford to take a QB in the 1st
*dline
Nice Job Matthew, this series is great
Topic for discussion. I'd love to hear everyone's' thoughts on this.
Let's say Reiff is extended and the Free Agent Signings are something like:
-Veteran Average Starting Corner Back,
-Veteran Average Starting Guard
-and a couple camp body/reclamation project DL/WR (The Tajae Sharps and Eddie Yarbroughs of the World)
This would seem to indicate that the main objective of the draft would be defensive line.
Would you rather...
-Select Rousseau/Paye in the first and find an inside out rusher like Jaylen Twymann on day 2? or
-Select Barmore in the first and get the EDGE who drops on day 2. Maybe you trade up into the second, and make a run at Jaelan Phillips, or maybe Patrick Jones comes all the way to 78.
I've heard it everywhere (Including on here and on the Prospect Podcast) that this is a very good EDGE class and a weaker DT class. This leads me to think that you should put a priority on getting the best 3-tech in the draft. This is especially true if you can trade back a few spots and accumulate another pick that can be used for trading up on day 2.
That said, the scouting reports on the top 2 EDGEs are phenomenal, and I think either would look good across from Hunter.
Thank you! Glad you're enjoying it... I tend to agree with you on the 3tech point. They're just so much more scarce than edge rushers right now. I also think the presence of so many QBs and WRs is going to push every other position down so there will be some rushers in the 3rd round that might surprise us. I'd lean toward getting 1 or 2 veterans in free agency for cheap and drafting a DE in the third than going all-in on a first rounder there.
I love your post and your "would you rather" with the specific names you mention and Barmore looks like the second coming of Chris Jones so in that sense, sure take him in the first. But there is an argument to go the other way, and that's part of the fun of this so I will make that argument.
If Barmore is Jones than you can look at Paye as another Everson Griffen. And a lot of this praise for Edge players includes 3-4 outside linebacker types so the Edge class isn't actually as deep on true 4-3 DEs as it sounds. And there are more good 3Ts in the top 100-120 than it's being given credit for.
For 3Ts I looked up rankings by Dane Brugler of The Athletic, PFF, and The Draft Network and will list those rankings with the player. So you have:
Barmore - 18/15/38
Nixon - 39/67/74
Onwuzurike - 43/50/56
Tufele - 69/112/39
Tuipulotu - 72/120/79
McNeil - 97/45/103
Wilson - NA/61/106
Twyman - NA/107/113
Stills - NA/163/108
The last 3 all are reported as spot pass rushers while the rest can play all 3 downs. Point is there are some solid prospects in the second and third rounds and while it may not have two top 15 selections like last year with Brown and Kinlaw it looks pretty comparable otherwise.
Looking at Edge players there some who are 4-3 DEs like the guys you mentioned and a few others in the top 100 or so:
Paye
Rousseau
Phillips
Jones II
Dimukeje
Basham Jr
Perkins
Weaver
Edge Tweeners, could get bigger and stronger or could just be rush linebacker
Oweh
Tryon
Smith
And a lot of Edge guys who are really 3-4 linebacker types
Ossai
Ojulari
Roche
Rashed Jr.
So there might be more 4-3 DEs than 3T DTs, but there aren't that many more. In the eyes of this wannabe draft expert (aka a very good reader) anyway. Hell, I want my cake and to eat it too. Somehow Rick drops way back in the first to pick up a second and then moves up in the third and comes away with a OL Vera-Tucker/Mayfield/Davis, a 3T Nixon/Onwuzurike/McNeil/Twyman and a DE Jones/Tryon/Basham. He can then coast on his next dozen picks on draft night and still be a hero again in my eyes.
You make a good point that when I say it’s weak at 3T, I really mean there aren’t multiple guys that are going to go in the first round. It’s not that there’s no talent in the draft at all
I like the draft you laid out as well. It's crazy to me how many highly rated DL are coming out of Pitt this year. I know some of them opted out, but it still surprises me that they didn't make a bit more noise in the ACC this year.
Next to a QB, Dline and Oline are the most important position groups in the NFL. But they're the positions where Spielman always tries to spend the least in money and draft capital. He spends top dollar on less important positions like linebacker, safety, wide receiver, running back, and tight end and then expects to make do with 4th and 6th round and undrafted linemen. No surprise the team gets destroyed at the line of scrimmage on a weekly basis and doesn't meet expectations. Football is simple, if you dominate the trenches and have a QB who makes the easy to average plays and avoids bone headed mistakes, then you'll be successful. Spielman pretends it's complicated, so the dumb fans will continue to think he's the Wizard of OZ when he gets lucky and hits on a Justin Jefferson every once in a while.
Also, the fact that the Vikings couldn't figure out that Ngakoue does not play the run well with four years of NFL tape before bringing him in, spending 8M$ of cap space and losing 40 picks of draft equity, in exchange for six games and 1 win, makes Spielman and Zimmer look like incompetents.
Well, the offensive line has a 1st rounder, 2 2nd rounders and a $50M left tackle... it isn't lack of spending/drafting, it's not filling the weakest spot or focusing on pass protection. On the defensive line, I get why they would try to draft guys in the mid rounds because they were set there for so long but the problem was that they needed somebody to be a home run pick and they all faltered. You're right on about Ngakoue. Even people from Jacksonville questioned whether he'd fit in Minnesota because he was basically a linebacker there