Jerry might still trade for Zimmer after this year lol. 2 pts. I agree Stephanski right have been an excellent head coach for the Vikings however when you look at their skill players and ours it looks like a fair comparison until you get to the O-line... no comparison, Browns O-line makes our O-line look like flag football players. If Zimmer had that O-line, which will never happen because he'd rather draft 80 rated CB than a 90 rated guard or tackle, we would have road graded and pass protected to the point of 7 or 8 points a game better. Cousins would have had enough time to increase JJ's production by another 300 - 500 yards and Theilen another 200 - 400 yds without changing the play calling this year. Cousins would have seen them wide open instead of running for his life or being scared to death of another interception. Love the dialogue and continue to appreciate the analysis :) SKOL Matthew :)
That's the thing about the contracts they've handed out.... hard to be strong at every position and they've consistently picked guard as an area where they can be weak. Maybe that changes
Great read Matt. The last few weeks I have read many articles regarding Zimmer, keep him, fire him, etc...regardless of which point of view the article was written from there is a very disturbing commonality. Both sides agree that Mike Zimmer is a hindrance on the offensive success. Whether it be neglecting the feelings of Diggs, or alienating personnel, handcuffing the play-calling, love him or hate him, he is an anchor for the O. So here is my question for you Mr. Coller because like you, I feel that Zimmer is a good coach and brings something to the table for a team. Why can't he just make necessary changes to his approach when it comes to handling of offensive personnel and offensive scheme? More importantly why is it that I can see it, and you can see it, and many people on this very forum can see it, but people who get paid absurd money to make decisions cannot see it? This is not an x's and o's situation where owners are not going to get involved, this is a situation where all parties can win with the simplest of fixes. You have asked Cronin, Monson, Sirles, probably Eager on the podcast what is the way to fix the vikings and everyone defaults to the same thing, well x,y,z but it won't happen bc of Zimmer and his philosophy. Here is your answer and it comes from Rick and The flying Wilf brothers in a Mafia style sit down. "Mike, we love what you do here with keeping things ordered and respectable, with your work ethic and your defensive creativity, we want to keep you here for the long haul through this roster makeover, but in order for that to happen you have to allow for someone to come in and be creative with our existing scheme and make JJ the focus of the offense. IF you are not ok with this going forward, we have to part ways. Besides, you have enough on your plate with this almost entirely new defense and you need to understand that we expect major improvements with an offseason and players coming back from injury."
I mean at some point if Zimmer is not ready to make some changes or is too proud to or whatever it may be, then that says all you need to know. When the answer is right in front of you and you refuse to see it...
It's a great question but I think that there are plenty of situations that show up along the way where stubbornness has burned them. I think when it comes to the owners getting involved, the thing with the Wilfs is that they seem to trust the football people to understand these things better than they do and then they judge the results. I'm not sure you'd see the owners step in and tell Zimmer to run the ball less. One thing that's interesting is that Zimmer's always adapted his defense but seems to be very set on what he wants from the offense. Maybe if they protect Cousins better next year they'd go more of a passing direction but it's hard to see happening
I really think that the best thing and the most likely outcome for this offseason is to improve upon what already exists. You know one of the biggest miscalculations that happened this year was not on the defensive side of the ball but at left guard. Dozier should never have started every game and it doesn’t take an analytical mind to draw that conclusion. Getting rid of Kline was a huge miscalculation. Not that he was a world beater but he was average and stable. With that said here is my attempt to fix the Vikings in the short term while still having an eye on the future. I think Reiff should be released along with Rudolph, Harris, Stephen and Barr. I would attempt to resign Wilson on the cheap but if that doesn’t happen then I would draft someone in the 3rd or 4th rd that could fill that roll like Browning from OSU or Cox from LSU that are fast and athletic. I would then get a new deal in place for Hunter that reduces his cap hit for 21 and juices up his money beyond that. With the cap space I would sign 2 guards, 1 would be Sherf who has ties to the Midwest, and I would over pay if necessary, and the other would be an average (Kline type) of player, and move Cleveland to his natural position at LT. Next I would sign a veteran corner again someone average maybe familiar with Zims scheme to stabilize the room. The last remaining space I would use on 1 or 2 edge rushers that could platoon the right side of the DE spot. Guys like Grif who have some left in the tank but won’t command a ton of money. I know Grif is most likely out because of the “ass” heard round the world but someone like that that they could kick the tires on. In the draft i would trade back if possible and take the best pass rushing IDL possible. Barmore, Dixon, Wilson, Twyman. Then I would pick A guard, maybe brown from Bama, then a Safety like Cisco, Ford, or Holland. I would grab a receiver that can do all of the things that we don’t have to make plays like jet sweep, bubble screens etc, maybe Shi Smith. Finally I take another interior lineman like Drake Jackson from Kentucky to push Bradbury. With that said we still would have 100 picks in the mid fourth-seventh to pick up extra cbs, and dl.
Great article as always. I have two questions/suggestions for articles:
1) whose idea was it to sign Cousins in the first place? Recent articles (The Viking Age and Daily Norseman) and tweets from Everson Griffen suggest that Zimmer did not want Cousins and TVA suggested that it was ownership, not Spielman. I have always blamed Spielman for picking Cousins, despite him being a poor fit for the team. I have also blamed Spielman for not accurately recognizing why they were blown out by the Eagles in the NFC Championship--it wasn't Keenum's play--it was because both lines got killed by the Eagles. Perhaps it was ownership?; and
2) Unless I missed it, has anyone ever done a comparison of Brent Jones' PFF grades vs. Elflein, Samia and Cleveland? I understand Jones isn't the second coming of Steve Hutchison, but he seems to be a much better player than any of the other three and I don't understand why the Vikings have consistently refused to play him.
Thanks Landon. I don't think Everson saying that exonerates Zimmer from signing Kirk. When they signed him, Zimmer stood at the podium and said it was a complete joint decision between him, Spielman and DeFilippo. Nobody gets a free pass if this thing ultimately never works out.
Part 2, I did something on this somewhere this season but Jones's PFF grades are vastly better than the others. Jones had a 77.6 overall grade and 76.1 pass block. Samia's grades were 33.7 overall and 18.7 pass block. That seems like a typo but it isn't. Elflein only played the one game this year for the Vikings but last year he was 64.7 overall and 51.3 pass block. Not playing him more early in the year was astonishing. I get playing Cleveland but even his grades were 66.2 overall and 52.0 pass block
Thank you. Regarding Jones, it seems the PFF grades match my eyes, so it's astonishing he hasn't played more in the 3 seasons since he was acquired, since the guard position has been terrible in all of those years. He graded out well with the Giants too.
The reason why I ask, is it seems like a ridiculous notion that ownership would force Cousins on a coach and gm who just took them to the NFC title game, even if they did get blown out, outmanned and outcoached.
Not to disparage other writers but there's no evidence that Spielman/Zimmer have ever been overruled on moves because of ownership. It's pretty reckless for a writer to even suggest that in an article without having any clue if it's true. But I guess that's what some blog-by-night folks can do when they aren't held to a journalistic standard. I'm in agreement with you that there would be no reason for ownership to suddenly start pulling roster strings after Spielman/Zimmer built such a successful team. However, I'm certain they supported it. Heck, it made a lot of sense at the time for everyone involved.
Anyway... you're 100% right on Jones. None of us understood in the slightest why he wasn't used more except for the fact he's slower getting to the second level on reach blocks. That's important but not as important as protecting Kirk.
Matt, I liked how in part 1, you finished with telling us what you thought the “most likely” option would be. It seems fairly clear that the “most likely” option here is keeping Zimmer given that we just extended him but it would be cool to have that “most likely” paragraph at the end of each of these articles.
All good points Matthew. I am on board with trading Zimmer if the price is right. Having a good head Coach matters. Look at Stefanski in Cleveland. There is no reason a team like the Jets could have a similar turnaround like the Browns with Zimmer at the helm. With more talent on Offense than defense he might not be a fit with the Vikings long term.
Jerry might still trade for Zimmer after this year lol. 2 pts. I agree Stephanski right have been an excellent head coach for the Vikings however when you look at their skill players and ours it looks like a fair comparison until you get to the O-line... no comparison, Browns O-line makes our O-line look like flag football players. If Zimmer had that O-line, which will never happen because he'd rather draft 80 rated CB than a 90 rated guard or tackle, we would have road graded and pass protected to the point of 7 or 8 points a game better. Cousins would have had enough time to increase JJ's production by another 300 - 500 yards and Theilen another 200 - 400 yds without changing the play calling this year. Cousins would have seen them wide open instead of running for his life or being scared to death of another interception. Love the dialogue and continue to appreciate the analysis :) SKOL Matthew :)
That's the thing about the contracts they've handed out.... hard to be strong at every position and they've consistently picked guard as an area where they can be weak. Maybe that changes
Agree completely
Great read Matt. The last few weeks I have read many articles regarding Zimmer, keep him, fire him, etc...regardless of which point of view the article was written from there is a very disturbing commonality. Both sides agree that Mike Zimmer is a hindrance on the offensive success. Whether it be neglecting the feelings of Diggs, or alienating personnel, handcuffing the play-calling, love him or hate him, he is an anchor for the O. So here is my question for you Mr. Coller because like you, I feel that Zimmer is a good coach and brings something to the table for a team. Why can't he just make necessary changes to his approach when it comes to handling of offensive personnel and offensive scheme? More importantly why is it that I can see it, and you can see it, and many people on this very forum can see it, but people who get paid absurd money to make decisions cannot see it? This is not an x's and o's situation where owners are not going to get involved, this is a situation where all parties can win with the simplest of fixes. You have asked Cronin, Monson, Sirles, probably Eager on the podcast what is the way to fix the vikings and everyone defaults to the same thing, well x,y,z but it won't happen bc of Zimmer and his philosophy. Here is your answer and it comes from Rick and The flying Wilf brothers in a Mafia style sit down. "Mike, we love what you do here with keeping things ordered and respectable, with your work ethic and your defensive creativity, we want to keep you here for the long haul through this roster makeover, but in order for that to happen you have to allow for someone to come in and be creative with our existing scheme and make JJ the focus of the offense. IF you are not ok with this going forward, we have to part ways. Besides, you have enough on your plate with this almost entirely new defense and you need to understand that we expect major improvements with an offseason and players coming back from injury."
I mean at some point if Zimmer is not ready to make some changes or is too proud to or whatever it may be, then that says all you need to know. When the answer is right in front of you and you refuse to see it...
It's a great question but I think that there are plenty of situations that show up along the way where stubbornness has burned them. I think when it comes to the owners getting involved, the thing with the Wilfs is that they seem to trust the football people to understand these things better than they do and then they judge the results. I'm not sure you'd see the owners step in and tell Zimmer to run the ball less. One thing that's interesting is that Zimmer's always adapted his defense but seems to be very set on what he wants from the offense. Maybe if they protect Cousins better next year they'd go more of a passing direction but it's hard to see happening
I really think that the best thing and the most likely outcome for this offseason is to improve upon what already exists. You know one of the biggest miscalculations that happened this year was not on the defensive side of the ball but at left guard. Dozier should never have started every game and it doesn’t take an analytical mind to draw that conclusion. Getting rid of Kline was a huge miscalculation. Not that he was a world beater but he was average and stable. With that said here is my attempt to fix the Vikings in the short term while still having an eye on the future. I think Reiff should be released along with Rudolph, Harris, Stephen and Barr. I would attempt to resign Wilson on the cheap but if that doesn’t happen then I would draft someone in the 3rd or 4th rd that could fill that roll like Browning from OSU or Cox from LSU that are fast and athletic. I would then get a new deal in place for Hunter that reduces his cap hit for 21 and juices up his money beyond that. With the cap space I would sign 2 guards, 1 would be Sherf who has ties to the Midwest, and I would over pay if necessary, and the other would be an average (Kline type) of player, and move Cleveland to his natural position at LT. Next I would sign a veteran corner again someone average maybe familiar with Zims scheme to stabilize the room. The last remaining space I would use on 1 or 2 edge rushers that could platoon the right side of the DE spot. Guys like Grif who have some left in the tank but won’t command a ton of money. I know Grif is most likely out because of the “ass” heard round the world but someone like that that they could kick the tires on. In the draft i would trade back if possible and take the best pass rushing IDL possible. Barmore, Dixon, Wilson, Twyman. Then I would pick A guard, maybe brown from Bama, then a Safety like Cisco, Ford, or Holland. I would grab a receiver that can do all of the things that we don’t have to make plays like jet sweep, bubble screens etc, maybe Shi Smith. Finally I take another interior lineman like Drake Jackson from Kentucky to push Bradbury. With that said we still would have 100 picks in the mid fourth-seventh to pick up extra cbs, and dl.
Oh and 1 more thing, simple self scout, not run more or pass more, just when to do it to maximize efficiency
Great article as always. I have two questions/suggestions for articles:
1) whose idea was it to sign Cousins in the first place? Recent articles (The Viking Age and Daily Norseman) and tweets from Everson Griffen suggest that Zimmer did not want Cousins and TVA suggested that it was ownership, not Spielman. I have always blamed Spielman for picking Cousins, despite him being a poor fit for the team. I have also blamed Spielman for not accurately recognizing why they were blown out by the Eagles in the NFC Championship--it wasn't Keenum's play--it was because both lines got killed by the Eagles. Perhaps it was ownership?; and
2) Unless I missed it, has anyone ever done a comparison of Brent Jones' PFF grades vs. Elflein, Samia and Cleveland? I understand Jones isn't the second coming of Steve Hutchison, but he seems to be a much better player than any of the other three and I don't understand why the Vikings have consistently refused to play him.
Thanks Landon. I don't think Everson saying that exonerates Zimmer from signing Kirk. When they signed him, Zimmer stood at the podium and said it was a complete joint decision between him, Spielman and DeFilippo. Nobody gets a free pass if this thing ultimately never works out.
Part 2, I did something on this somewhere this season but Jones's PFF grades are vastly better than the others. Jones had a 77.6 overall grade and 76.1 pass block. Samia's grades were 33.7 overall and 18.7 pass block. That seems like a typo but it isn't. Elflein only played the one game this year for the Vikings but last year he was 64.7 overall and 51.3 pass block. Not playing him more early in the year was astonishing. I get playing Cleveland but even his grades were 66.2 overall and 52.0 pass block
Thank you. Regarding Jones, it seems the PFF grades match my eyes, so it's astonishing he hasn't played more in the 3 seasons since he was acquired, since the guard position has been terrible in all of those years. He graded out well with the Giants too.
Regarding the Cousins signing, I am not just referring to Everson's statements, but several articles I've read recently. This one goes so far to suggest that Spielman wasn't in favor of the signing either and ownership pushed it: https://thevikingage.com/2021/01/10/minnesota-vikings-forced-sign-kirk-cousins/
The reason why I ask, is it seems like a ridiculous notion that ownership would force Cousins on a coach and gm who just took them to the NFC title game, even if they did get blown out, outmanned and outcoached.
Not to disparage other writers but there's no evidence that Spielman/Zimmer have ever been overruled on moves because of ownership. It's pretty reckless for a writer to even suggest that in an article without having any clue if it's true. But I guess that's what some blog-by-night folks can do when they aren't held to a journalistic standard. I'm in agreement with you that there would be no reason for ownership to suddenly start pulling roster strings after Spielman/Zimmer built such a successful team. However, I'm certain they supported it. Heck, it made a lot of sense at the time for everyone involved.
Anyway... you're 100% right on Jones. None of us understood in the slightest why he wasn't used more except for the fact he's slower getting to the second level on reach blocks. That's important but not as important as protecting Kirk.
Matt, I liked how in part 1, you finished with telling us what you thought the “most likely” option would be. It seems fairly clear that the “most likely” option here is keeping Zimmer given that we just extended him but it would be cool to have that “most likely” paragraph at the end of each of these articles.
Good point, Robert. I'll make sure to do that in the rest of the series
All good points Matthew. I am on board with trading Zimmer if the price is right. Having a good head Coach matters. Look at Stefanski in Cleveland. There is no reason a team like the Jets could have a similar turnaround like the Browns with Zimmer at the helm. With more talent on Offense than defense he might not be a fit with the Vikings long term.
Appreciate that Ben. I would be very surprised if they went the trade route but there's def a case for it