Matthew and Sam - There seems to be some steam about Keelan Cole as a WR3 target - The McCardell connection is obvious, but what are your thoughts? I personally love it. He seems to be quite underrated given the awful qb play he had with the Jags.
I think Cole is really solid! My latest thinking, though, is that it's fairly easy to find contributing rookie receivers from the draft, so spending FA money elsewhere might be a smarter fiscal strategy.
The 2017 team did well on offense, with a substandard oline, because Case Keenum had a lot more mobility than Kirk and he knew how to improvise, which Kirk cannot do. Kirk has always been a poor fit for the Vikings' personnel.
No doubt Keenum had more escapability ...my point was that sometimes people act like it's totally impossible for Kirk to overcome bad guard play when there's plenty of games where Cousins has played well despite a struggling OL. I think it's just a feature of the QB that he's going to have *those* days. It also seems to me that when an opponent has a good coverage unit, that's when front 4s really get to him. Chicago in the past had better corners and killed Cousins but this year they had the same front and created a ton of pressure but their corners were bad/injured and he was very good against them. That's part of my "give him more weapons" argument. Another point on this is that when you have the No. 1 defense, you're probably playing from ahead a lot and can run the ball and play-action, like the '17 team did all the time
1. Re: Patrick Surtain II, I'm probably in a small minority here but I do not have a big problem with it if the Vikings do indeed draft a CB in the 1st round. After QB, I view positions of importance as: WR, CB, DE. You can't have enough good CB's in this league. That being said, I'd prefer a WR for three reasons:
-The offense is far closer to being great than the defense.
-Offense wins championships in this timeline.
-Most importantly, it would signal an adjustment in Zimmer's philosophy.
2. I haven't put much stock into the Cousins trade rumors thus far, but the Broncos are an exception. That move makes a lot of sense for all the obvious reasons, not the least of which is Cousins' contract being a ticking timebomb.
I have mixed feelings about the possibility of this trade. If it went down, it would tell me that there's a newfound patience in the Vikings' front office and an implied understanding that they need to draft a quarterback with a high pick in the next two off-seasons. But that positivity would be tempered by the fact that I don't see a championship for the Vikings as a possibility without Zimmer altering his core philosophies. You need a great offense and a good defense to win a SB, not the opposite. And you need to throw the ball more than you run it, not the opposite.
If Mike can't figure those two things out, I view personnel moves as somewhat meaningless.
Wow, your final three sentences sum up this team perfectly. I see the odds of Zimmer changing as about one in a thousand, though, so yes, most everything they do personnel-wise this year is meaningless. Except in terms of what it means to build on or baggage in the post-Zimmer era, whenever that comes.
Thanks, Rob. I'm 46 years old and attended my first Vikes game at Met Stadium. My dad was at all four of the Vikings SB losses. At this point in my life, all I care about for this team is winning a championship. And while some of the moves they make will certainly impact the number of W's and L's this coming year, I just don't care about the possibility of another 10-6 season.
Personally, I'm fine with the team taking a step back to move two steps forward. But I don't see Zimmer/Spielman being willing to do that. Now perhaps they want to and the Wilfs won't give them a long enough leash. Or perhaps they're both impatient by nature. I do not know, although I'd love to know the answer to this question.
The funny thing is that I'm not a huge proponent of trading Kirk. I think with the right philosophic adjustments and the addition of a good LG and a good/great WR3, along with the development of defensive draft picks, I genuinely believe the Vikes could have a shot at the SB the season after the upcoming one if Kirk was the QB. But I view Zimmer's philosophies as such an impassible artificial ceiling for this team that I've become hopelessly focused on it.
Hah, I'm with you 100%. My first memory of the Vikings was watching the Super Bowl loss to the Raiders so all these years later I do start to wonder if I'll ever see a championship for this team.
I think Cousins and Zimmer are perfect for one another in many ways, both have some major strengths, but fundamental weaknesses. But like you I look at Zimmer as the bigger problem of the two. I want them to take a step back next year so that Zimmer is fired and they get a coach who gets everything you've called out. And if that also means a better draft pick and an opportunity to draft a rookie QB in 2022 and move on from Kirk in 2023 that's good too. Something bad needs to happen next year for the Wilfs to actually make a change.
From everything Matthew, Courtney, Judd, and Chad Graff at The Athletic say the Wilfs want to be like the Steelers and in the playoffs every year so as you've said, they're part of the problem even though in many ways they really are outstanding owners. But they're fooling themselves if that's what they think this team is. Like Rick keeps fooling himself that he's finding gold in his 4th through 7th round selections so keep piling them on. Or Matthew believing there's any value in taking a WR at 14 when Mike Zimmer is coaching this team (I just can't help mocking Matthew for that. I appreciate when Courtney and others ask him nicely what the hell he's thinking. Now, if Dyami Brown is available early in the third please move up and take him). Or me with wishful thinking that a team like the Steelers would be desperate enough to trade for Cousins. We can all dream.
"He wins the Super Bowl, embraces Shamar Stephen and announces his retirement?"
Amazing line. Got a hearty cackle from me.
Matthew and Sam - There seems to be some steam about Keelan Cole as a WR3 target - The McCardell connection is obvious, but what are your thoughts? I personally love it. He seems to be quite underrated given the awful qb play he had with the Jags.
I think Cole is really solid! My latest thinking, though, is that it's fairly easy to find contributing rookie receivers from the draft, so spending FA money elsewhere might be a smarter fiscal strategy.
The 2017 team did well on offense, with a substandard oline, because Case Keenum had a lot more mobility than Kirk and he knew how to improvise, which Kirk cannot do. Kirk has always been a poor fit for the Vikings' personnel.
No doubt Keenum had more escapability ...my point was that sometimes people act like it's totally impossible for Kirk to overcome bad guard play when there's plenty of games where Cousins has played well despite a struggling OL. I think it's just a feature of the QB that he's going to have *those* days. It also seems to me that when an opponent has a good coverage unit, that's when front 4s really get to him. Chicago in the past had better corners and killed Cousins but this year they had the same front and created a ton of pressure but their corners were bad/injured and he was very good against them. That's part of my "give him more weapons" argument. Another point on this is that when you have the No. 1 defense, you're probably playing from ahead a lot and can run the ball and play-action, like the '17 team did all the time
A couple of thoughts on the Q/A:
1. Re: Patrick Surtain II, I'm probably in a small minority here but I do not have a big problem with it if the Vikings do indeed draft a CB in the 1st round. After QB, I view positions of importance as: WR, CB, DE. You can't have enough good CB's in this league. That being said, I'd prefer a WR for three reasons:
-The offense is far closer to being great than the defense.
-Offense wins championships in this timeline.
-Most importantly, it would signal an adjustment in Zimmer's philosophy.
2. I haven't put much stock into the Cousins trade rumors thus far, but the Broncos are an exception. That move makes a lot of sense for all the obvious reasons, not the least of which is Cousins' contract being a ticking timebomb.
I have mixed feelings about the possibility of this trade. If it went down, it would tell me that there's a newfound patience in the Vikings' front office and an implied understanding that they need to draft a quarterback with a high pick in the next two off-seasons. But that positivity would be tempered by the fact that I don't see a championship for the Vikings as a possibility without Zimmer altering his core philosophies. You need a great offense and a good defense to win a SB, not the opposite. And you need to throw the ball more than you run it, not the opposite.
If Mike can't figure those two things out, I view personnel moves as somewhat meaningless.
Wow, your final three sentences sum up this team perfectly. I see the odds of Zimmer changing as about one in a thousand, though, so yes, most everything they do personnel-wise this year is meaningless. Except in terms of what it means to build on or baggage in the post-Zimmer era, whenever that comes.
Thanks, Rob. I'm 46 years old and attended my first Vikes game at Met Stadium. My dad was at all four of the Vikings SB losses. At this point in my life, all I care about for this team is winning a championship. And while some of the moves they make will certainly impact the number of W's and L's this coming year, I just don't care about the possibility of another 10-6 season.
Personally, I'm fine with the team taking a step back to move two steps forward. But I don't see Zimmer/Spielman being willing to do that. Now perhaps they want to and the Wilfs won't give them a long enough leash. Or perhaps they're both impatient by nature. I do not know, although I'd love to know the answer to this question.
The funny thing is that I'm not a huge proponent of trading Kirk. I think with the right philosophic adjustments and the addition of a good LG and a good/great WR3, along with the development of defensive draft picks, I genuinely believe the Vikes could have a shot at the SB the season after the upcoming one if Kirk was the QB. But I view Zimmer's philosophies as such an impassible artificial ceiling for this team that I've become hopelessly focused on it.
Hah, I'm with you 100%. My first memory of the Vikings was watching the Super Bowl loss to the Raiders so all these years later I do start to wonder if I'll ever see a championship for this team.
I think Cousins and Zimmer are perfect for one another in many ways, both have some major strengths, but fundamental weaknesses. But like you I look at Zimmer as the bigger problem of the two. I want them to take a step back next year so that Zimmer is fired and they get a coach who gets everything you've called out. And if that also means a better draft pick and an opportunity to draft a rookie QB in 2022 and move on from Kirk in 2023 that's good too. Something bad needs to happen next year for the Wilfs to actually make a change.
From everything Matthew, Courtney, Judd, and Chad Graff at The Athletic say the Wilfs want to be like the Steelers and in the playoffs every year so as you've said, they're part of the problem even though in many ways they really are outstanding owners. But they're fooling themselves if that's what they think this team is. Like Rick keeps fooling himself that he's finding gold in his 4th through 7th round selections so keep piling them on. Or Matthew believing there's any value in taking a WR at 14 when Mike Zimmer is coaching this team (I just can't help mocking Matthew for that. I appreciate when Courtney and others ask him nicely what the hell he's thinking. Now, if Dyami Brown is available early in the third please move up and take him). Or me with wishful thinking that a team like the Steelers would be desperate enough to trade for Cousins. We can all dream.