Great read and great thread :), I know it sounds like a broken record, but the only thing I would add is that you also have to play within the limitations of your players. Most of the thread is dedicated to looking at utilizing the strengths (which I agree with ) however if the quarter back cannot scramble, can't deal with pressure straight up the middle, goes through unexplainable periods of fright and inaccuracy... you need A.) an improved O-line specifically Guards. We are likely going to see Cousins this year and next. The comments about the passes 1st half vs. 2nd half are spot on. We run the first half and panic being behind the 2nd half. I believe the only reason the passes are up the 2nd half is Zimmer's run, run is not working or we'd still be running 2nd half passing does not seem to be by design, it seems to be by default for being behind. If we picked up the guard play the entire Offense can take a leap forward. Still needs Zimmer to balance the run/pass, particularly in the 1st half but that would make a substantial difference. I think Cousins with less pressure would bring a considerable return. We've not seen him with minimal pressure since he came here. I'm not particularly a Cousin's fan but I believe he is capable of lifting the Offense's standing if those guard slots were filled appropriately.
I agree with playing within the limitations of the player and definitely don’t think it’s a good idea to throw 80% of the time but it’s a fair thing to suggest they put the guy they invested that much money to be in a position to be the reason they win, if that makes sense. Building around him and using his talents to win rather than just make only a handful of throws per game doesn’t make a ton of sense
This is not a good look for Zimmers philosophy. I can see ownership having a meeting with Zimmer to explain this. Dont think for a second Jefferson isn't paying attention to this as well. He will want out as well if this trend continues and that will be irresponsible of Zimmer if it got to that point
Amen to the closing comment!!! What is going on with this team. This is my biggest concern with the management/coaching staff...use ALL your talent!!!! (And occasionally throw the ball on 2nd and 1...)
Is it possible for them to keep the same style of offense (run + play action) while also increasing pass attempts? Could you accomplish that by 1) passing more on 2nd & long and 2) Staying more aggressive/passing more when protecting leads? Seems like if you get those 2 stats at or a little above league average, you add maybe ~30 attempts. And if it pays off, you have fewer 3 & outs, so maybe that turns in to 40+ attempts. Is that a difference maker? Does that also help solve your Dalvin over-use issue? While we're at it, throw in #3) use Mattison more to spell Dalvin the way that many other successful teams are using their RBs (e.g. NO, TB, GB, etc.) Those feel like 3 easy philosophical changes to make - is that enough? And does all of that work with their dedication to a zone blocking scheme/athletic O-Linemen?
Oh yeah, it definitely is. When the Rams went to the Super Bowl in 2018, they were 14th in pass attempts and they run a similar system. It's not a monster adjustment that needs to be made, it's (as you said) hitting the efficient times to throw hard rather than running on every second and long. There's absolutely a sweet spot. If Cousins is only throwing, it's going to have diminishing returns. Def agree with your point on Mattison. Of course they need to improve a bit on the OL but they could help the line by avoiding unfavorable situations too
"One can’t help but wonder if reaction to Rudolph’s frustration will be viewed differently from Diggs’s locally. But I digress."
I'm always wary of assuming consensus based on twitter loudmouths and both men dealt with their frustration differently. But that being said, I don't have a problem with either man's frustration, nor the way they expressed it. You get one life and one career. These men are playing for the most elite league in the world for their business. They both care (cared in Diggs' case) about the Vikings and about winning. Tough to maintain perfect behavior when you know you can help your team more if you were utilized properly. Especially when you're Kyle Rudolf and on the wrong side of 30.
Diggs' season for the Bills completely vindicates his discontent, imho. Rudolf is a guy that's many years removed from getting social-distancing levels of separation from a linebacker or safety, but he's still in his prime from the perspective of using his size & strength to overpower & box out that linebacker or safety. His hands are above reproach. It's a crime to not throw him the ball more often, although one could make the same argument for Jefferson and Thielan as this team simply doesn't throw the ball enough.
There seems to be a very odd disconnect between Spielman and Zimmer, which is especially odd given how much influence Zimmer is rumored to have when it comes to Spielman's decisions. Why pay Kyle Rudolf 10 mil a season to block? There are several other examples of the same bizarre mis-matches between skillset and usage on this roster. But more concerning is the possibility that we're seeing the beginnings of a pattern where high quality players are unhappy with the Vikings as an organization.
That the Vikings landed JJ in exchange for trading Stefon Diggs does not forgive the fact that he was so frustrated with Mike Zimmer's antiquated approach that he wanted to leave a team that had been to the NFC Championship a year earlier. Kyle Rudolf is almost certainly gone and while I've seen several people on twatter say "good riddance", I would caution those people. Rudolf is still a good player and he can do things that Irv Smith Jr. and Tyler Conklin cannot. You win games by having players like Rudolf on your roster and using them to their maximum capability.
If I'm the Wilfs, I'm sitting Zimmer down this off season and giving him an edict: Either modernize your offensive approach or stop spending our money on players that are wasted in your system.
And one last thing for Mike Zimmer (because i'm positive he reads Purple Insider): Mike, nobody is telling you that you've got to start going around slapping backs and giving everyone on your team a pat on the butt to encourage them. But you do need to start making your players feel valued if you want them to stick around.
Great thoughts Finchy. The team does send out an email to everyone in the org every day with the articles so... yeah, they read 'em haha.
My snarky jab was not to suggest people who called Diggs a "diva" or "cancer" were the majority but I reported that those things were not really the case, that it was an issue with a player and coach/management and yet over and over I saw those accusations thrown at him. But Rudolph seems to have avoided that same criticism even though he said WAY more publicly than Diggs. I'm in agreement with players taking their careers into their own hands as much as they can. Though the method of making it public as Rudolph did is pretty questionable. Anyway, you nailed the overall sentiment of the piece. Once you've got two players throwing up their hands with frustration on the same topic... guys who are proven very good players... it's time to look in the mirror. It's not good for business to have people wanting out due to unhappiness
Even with the win in New Orleans in playoffs last year it was time to let Zimmer go. He was brought in to stabilize a franchise that had been a mess for years. He did his job and made the defense respectable but missed his chance when all the pieces aligned in 2017. The game has changed so much in the past 5 years but Zimmer is the same guy with antiquated philosophies that seem to hold back the talent on the offense of side of the ball due to his ego wanting to play a certain way. Offense is what moves the needle now in terms of success in the NFL and is more sustainable than an elite defense. Today if you have an elite offense you just need an average defense to be successful. The margin of error playing Zimmer ball is so small and seems to invite close games where you can lose very easily if you are not perfect.
On Rudolph he’s been a good player but it’s time to move on. However this is now becoming a trend with players on offensive side of ball expressing frustrations. If it gets to a point where Jefferson is unhappy and it’s a choice between him and Zimmer so long Mike.
That last part is exactly right. It’s not about whether Rudolph is still needed just like it isn’t about whether they won the Diggs trade. It’s two Pro Bowl players who signed contracts to catch footballs and then weren’t used like they expected. And I agree that Jefferson’s the most important person in the organization so if he ends up unhappy...
I don't the vikings need to drastically increase passing attempts to be more successful. Aaron Rodgers had 10 more attempts than Cousins (526 to 516.) The change needs to be passing in a way that increases the chances of extending drives and scoring points. Kyle Rudolph has been a great Viking and by most accounts is a fine human being but more attempts going his way probably isn't the answer. I propose Jefferson and Thielen combining for 300 attempts, Cook and Smith 60 or so a piece. Draft or sign a more competent WR3 for 50 targets. Remaining attempts to other pass catchers. Release Rudolph and use some of the savings on the line of scrimmage. Pass the right way not just pass more
Overall I agree. Thing is with Rodgers is that he had 50 more throws in the 1st half than Cousins this year. They were winning a lot more so they were pounding clock at the ends of games. Cousins had 63% of his passing yards when they were losing. I think that speaks to your point of passing the right way, meaning use it to get ahead in games. Smith only ended up with 41 targets this year, which... for a No. 3 receiver type is very low. The other point is that if you aren't going to pass a lot, why pay a QB, No. 3 WR, No. 1 TE (and draft a TE in the second round)? They invested a lot to pass and then... ran.
Great read and great thread :), I know it sounds like a broken record, but the only thing I would add is that you also have to play within the limitations of your players. Most of the thread is dedicated to looking at utilizing the strengths (which I agree with ) however if the quarter back cannot scramble, can't deal with pressure straight up the middle, goes through unexplainable periods of fright and inaccuracy... you need A.) an improved O-line specifically Guards. We are likely going to see Cousins this year and next. The comments about the passes 1st half vs. 2nd half are spot on. We run the first half and panic being behind the 2nd half. I believe the only reason the passes are up the 2nd half is Zimmer's run, run is not working or we'd still be running 2nd half passing does not seem to be by design, it seems to be by default for being behind. If we picked up the guard play the entire Offense can take a leap forward. Still needs Zimmer to balance the run/pass, particularly in the 1st half but that would make a substantial difference. I think Cousins with less pressure would bring a considerable return. We've not seen him with minimal pressure since he came here. I'm not particularly a Cousin's fan but I believe he is capable of lifting the Offense's standing if those guard slots were filled appropriately.
I agree with playing within the limitations of the player and definitely don’t think it’s a good idea to throw 80% of the time but it’s a fair thing to suggest they put the guy they invested that much money to be in a position to be the reason they win, if that makes sense. Building around him and using his talents to win rather than just make only a handful of throws per game doesn’t make a ton of sense
totally agree
This is not a good look for Zimmers philosophy. I can see ownership having a meeting with Zimmer to explain this. Dont think for a second Jefferson isn't paying attention to this as well. He will want out as well if this trend continues and that will be irresponsible of Zimmer if it got to that point
Amen to the closing comment!!! What is going on with this team. This is my biggest concern with the management/coaching staff...use ALL your talent!!!! (And occasionally throw the ball on 2nd and 1...)
Is it possible for them to keep the same style of offense (run + play action) while also increasing pass attempts? Could you accomplish that by 1) passing more on 2nd & long and 2) Staying more aggressive/passing more when protecting leads? Seems like if you get those 2 stats at or a little above league average, you add maybe ~30 attempts. And if it pays off, you have fewer 3 & outs, so maybe that turns in to 40+ attempts. Is that a difference maker? Does that also help solve your Dalvin over-use issue? While we're at it, throw in #3) use Mattison more to spell Dalvin the way that many other successful teams are using their RBs (e.g. NO, TB, GB, etc.) Those feel like 3 easy philosophical changes to make - is that enough? And does all of that work with their dedication to a zone blocking scheme/athletic O-Linemen?
Oh yeah, it definitely is. When the Rams went to the Super Bowl in 2018, they were 14th in pass attempts and they run a similar system. It's not a monster adjustment that needs to be made, it's (as you said) hitting the efficient times to throw hard rather than running on every second and long. There's absolutely a sweet spot. If Cousins is only throwing, it's going to have diminishing returns. Def agree with your point on Mattison. Of course they need to improve a bit on the OL but they could help the line by avoiding unfavorable situations too
"One can’t help but wonder if reaction to Rudolph’s frustration will be viewed differently from Diggs’s locally. But I digress."
I'm always wary of assuming consensus based on twitter loudmouths and both men dealt with their frustration differently. But that being said, I don't have a problem with either man's frustration, nor the way they expressed it. You get one life and one career. These men are playing for the most elite league in the world for their business. They both care (cared in Diggs' case) about the Vikings and about winning. Tough to maintain perfect behavior when you know you can help your team more if you were utilized properly. Especially when you're Kyle Rudolf and on the wrong side of 30.
Diggs' season for the Bills completely vindicates his discontent, imho. Rudolf is a guy that's many years removed from getting social-distancing levels of separation from a linebacker or safety, but he's still in his prime from the perspective of using his size & strength to overpower & box out that linebacker or safety. His hands are above reproach. It's a crime to not throw him the ball more often, although one could make the same argument for Jefferson and Thielan as this team simply doesn't throw the ball enough.
There seems to be a very odd disconnect between Spielman and Zimmer, which is especially odd given how much influence Zimmer is rumored to have when it comes to Spielman's decisions. Why pay Kyle Rudolf 10 mil a season to block? There are several other examples of the same bizarre mis-matches between skillset and usage on this roster. But more concerning is the possibility that we're seeing the beginnings of a pattern where high quality players are unhappy with the Vikings as an organization.
That the Vikings landed JJ in exchange for trading Stefon Diggs does not forgive the fact that he was so frustrated with Mike Zimmer's antiquated approach that he wanted to leave a team that had been to the NFC Championship a year earlier. Kyle Rudolf is almost certainly gone and while I've seen several people on twatter say "good riddance", I would caution those people. Rudolf is still a good player and he can do things that Irv Smith Jr. and Tyler Conklin cannot. You win games by having players like Rudolf on your roster and using them to their maximum capability.
If I'm the Wilfs, I'm sitting Zimmer down this off season and giving him an edict: Either modernize your offensive approach or stop spending our money on players that are wasted in your system.
And one last thing for Mike Zimmer (because i'm positive he reads Purple Insider): Mike, nobody is telling you that you've got to start going around slapping backs and giving everyone on your team a pat on the butt to encourage them. But you do need to start making your players feel valued if you want them to stick around.
Great thoughts Finchy. The team does send out an email to everyone in the org every day with the articles so... yeah, they read 'em haha.
My snarky jab was not to suggest people who called Diggs a "diva" or "cancer" were the majority but I reported that those things were not really the case, that it was an issue with a player and coach/management and yet over and over I saw those accusations thrown at him. But Rudolph seems to have avoided that same criticism even though he said WAY more publicly than Diggs. I'm in agreement with players taking their careers into their own hands as much as they can. Though the method of making it public as Rudolph did is pretty questionable. Anyway, you nailed the overall sentiment of the piece. Once you've got two players throwing up their hands with frustration on the same topic... guys who are proven very good players... it's time to look in the mirror. It's not good for business to have people wanting out due to unhappiness
Excellent contribution, I concur with your viewpoint.
Even with the win in New Orleans in playoffs last year it was time to let Zimmer go. He was brought in to stabilize a franchise that had been a mess for years. He did his job and made the defense respectable but missed his chance when all the pieces aligned in 2017. The game has changed so much in the past 5 years but Zimmer is the same guy with antiquated philosophies that seem to hold back the talent on the offense of side of the ball due to his ego wanting to play a certain way. Offense is what moves the needle now in terms of success in the NFL and is more sustainable than an elite defense. Today if you have an elite offense you just need an average defense to be successful. The margin of error playing Zimmer ball is so small and seems to invite close games where you can lose very easily if you are not perfect.
On Rudolph he’s been a good player but it’s time to move on. However this is now becoming a trend with players on offensive side of ball expressing frustrations. If it gets to a point where Jefferson is unhappy and it’s a choice between him and Zimmer so long Mike.
That last part is exactly right. It’s not about whether Rudolph is still needed just like it isn’t about whether they won the Diggs trade. It’s two Pro Bowl players who signed contracts to catch footballs and then weren’t used like they expected. And I agree that Jefferson’s the most important person in the organization so if he ends up unhappy...
I don't the vikings need to drastically increase passing attempts to be more successful. Aaron Rodgers had 10 more attempts than Cousins (526 to 516.) The change needs to be passing in a way that increases the chances of extending drives and scoring points. Kyle Rudolph has been a great Viking and by most accounts is a fine human being but more attempts going his way probably isn't the answer. I propose Jefferson and Thielen combining for 300 attempts, Cook and Smith 60 or so a piece. Draft or sign a more competent WR3 for 50 targets. Remaining attempts to other pass catchers. Release Rudolph and use some of the savings on the line of scrimmage. Pass the right way not just pass more
Overall I agree. Thing is with Rodgers is that he had 50 more throws in the 1st half than Cousins this year. They were winning a lot more so they were pounding clock at the ends of games. Cousins had 63% of his passing yards when they were losing. I think that speaks to your point of passing the right way, meaning use it to get ahead in games. Smith only ended up with 41 targets this year, which... for a No. 3 receiver type is very low. The other point is that if you aren't going to pass a lot, why pay a QB, No. 3 WR, No. 1 TE (and draft a TE in the second round)? They invested a lot to pass and then... ran.