Drafting is hard, and everybody takes players who bust. It’s irksome, especially given the abundance of information, but it happens.
Absolutely agree, the notion that there is some kind of deeper story here is just silly. JJMC is incredibly brittle, immature and during the brief moments he was on the field, played badly. It’s too bad, but it’s certainly not complicated.
The timing is a little odd given the return, but that probably doesn’t matter, either. The original cost became sunk a while ago, and it’s clear a good return wasn’t going to happen.
And I just read Kevin Siefert's report about him pushing his knee recovery too much on his own and making it worse. I've never seen or heard that previously, and it would be the biggest red flag of all. That should've precluded any possibility of him being ready to take over in '25. They should've extended Darnold that day.
I'm a long, long way from a KAM defender. He made myriad stupid, avoidable mistakes. But, everyone picks players who bust. Howie Roseman once used a 1st rd pick on a 27 year old Canadian firefighter--which sounds like a mad lib, not something that actually happened. He took Reagor instead of JJ. It's inevitable.
What should KOC or the Wilfs have done differently? Taking a QB in the 1st round is obviously a good, but risky, choice. If you take the wrong guy, the best thing to do is wipe your mouth and move on, and both KOC and the Wilfs did exactly that, no?
Maybe don't think that a guy with 700 pass attempts in college and no rookie season was ready to take over a win-now roster, especially since they were all privy to the stuff we are finding out about now that he's gone. They just sailed past all that and let go of a guy who had the type of season from a stats and wins standpoint that only the really good QBs have (and was seemingly built in a lab to run KOC's offense).
I'm not questioning moving on, I'm questioning everything that led up to them being in this position in the first place.
With the exception of rural Wisconsin, 1st round QBs play in their first season. JJMC missed his entire rookie year, but spent it in meetings every day, watching how pros review film (their own and opponents'). He had VR with go-pro film from Darnold's helmet. He then had a full offseason with the same HC/play-caller/offence. He also had a pretty damned advantageous roster around him. Most 1st round QBs are in much worse situations.
Certainly, if JJMC had been a 4 year starter with 1500 attempts, he would have been drafted either higher or lower. Evaluating players always requires some projection, and the lack of college experience was baked into JJMC's being the 5th QB taken. But, once drafted there is no way for him to get more snaps without. . .getting more snaps. Running the scout team every week doesn't teach a QB his own (or any) offence, or how to execute in a live setting.
We knew long before this week that JJMC is entitled, egotistical and immature. No other QB has publicly bestowed a nickname on himself before actually accomplishing anything. I can't think of another instance of a QB prematurely celebrating and then publicly sharing that he was expressly coached not to do it, but did so anyway.
The fact that JJMC is a massive bust doesn't change the validity of drafting him and then playing him. With the benefit of retrospective knowledge, keeping Darnold and trading JJMC was the much better option. Yet, given the information available at the various decision points, KAM's/KOC's choices re: JJMC were reasonable.
As for the Wilfs, there is absolutely nothing to criticize here. If anything, kudos to them for understanding a sunk cost and not vetoing this trade.
A DN subscriber said McCarthy has a "preternatural lack of maturity". When he was backslapping and cheerleading during a game Vikes were losing pretty rotten due mostly to McCarthy making bad mistakes, I can't imagine the vets on the team appreciated him being all college rah rah instead of a professional. He has not made that transition. Personality traits such as certainty that one knows better than everybody else what is right and wrong, typically do not change. I was all for the pick, thought we were in for a great ride after that Bears comeback game. Nope. Like, what kind of player decides to play without telling the team he has a bad throwing hand?
There is a big difference between developing and refining. KOC has shown he can refine a veteran, he has not shown that he can develop a QB.
Similar issue with Zimmer the alleged CB whisperer at least in MN. Every CB drafted during his tenure turned bust. The Vikings drafted 3 first round cbs and one 2nd round cb during his tenure, and none of them became star players. Zimmer was not a cb whisperer.
KOC has yet to show that he can develop a QB, so perhaps people should quit calling him a qb whisperer. He is good at reclamation projects with veterans though.
There has to be a line of demarcation though, right? If Bill Walsh and Don Coryell adopted and raised McVay from birth, he still couldn't turn a guy with one arm into an effective QB. Some (actually, very nearly all) college players are simply not capable of being NFL starting QBs, and that fact cannot be the organization's responsibility.
If you look at JJMC and see him as being on the org's fault side of that line, well, I might suggest a new oculist, but opinions are always subjective.
Fair enough. Agreed that KOC would/should like a mulligan on that line. A better comment would have been that the context around a QB has a massive impact on how he performs, especially early in his career.
I am halfway through the emergency pod and had an appointment so I wasn’t able to finish. But I will later today. So maybe you covered this on the pod, but who do you think pulled the trigger on this deal? OConnell or Teasly?
I like the kid, I hope he has a long career and stays healthy. We will never know what soured the relationship between McCarthy and O’Connell. Perhaps there’s only room for one JJ on a team.
You can’t make the club in the tub and you can’t make sense of nonsense. Two cliches that fit him perfectly. He may “get it” but we don’t have the six years it’ll take. He’s in his third year and awful as ever.
On to Miami.
Drafting is hard, and everybody takes players who bust. It’s irksome, especially given the abundance of information, but it happens.
Absolutely agree, the notion that there is some kind of deeper story here is just silly. JJMC is incredibly brittle, immature and during the brief moments he was on the field, played badly. It’s too bad, but it’s certainly not complicated.
The timing is a little odd given the return, but that probably doesn’t matter, either. The original cost became sunk a while ago, and it’s clear a good return wasn’t going to happen.
So many things that could've/should've been bright red warning signs about McCarthy along the way:
- His lack of college reps/attempts.
- Not being able to make it out of one preseason game healthy even though he took like two hits.
- The multiple procedures on the knee and the drastic weight loss during recovery.
- Not being ok with taking a reset year (if the Russini report is to be believed).
- The de-evolution of his mechanics from '24 to '25--his timing and accuracy never looked as good as they did in that Raiders game.
But nobody comes out of this looking good except for Darnold. KOC screwed up, Kwesi screwed up, the Wilfs screwed up, and JJ screwed up.
And I just read Kevin Siefert's report about him pushing his knee recovery too much on his own and making it worse. I've never seen or heard that previously, and it would be the biggest red flag of all. That should've precluded any possibility of him being ready to take over in '25. They should've extended Darnold that day.
I'm a long, long way from a KAM defender. He made myriad stupid, avoidable mistakes. But, everyone picks players who bust. Howie Roseman once used a 1st rd pick on a 27 year old Canadian firefighter--which sounds like a mad lib, not something that actually happened. He took Reagor instead of JJ. It's inevitable.
What should KOC or the Wilfs have done differently? Taking a QB in the 1st round is obviously a good, but risky, choice. If you take the wrong guy, the best thing to do is wipe your mouth and move on, and both KOC and the Wilfs did exactly that, no?
Maybe don't think that a guy with 700 pass attempts in college and no rookie season was ready to take over a win-now roster, especially since they were all privy to the stuff we are finding out about now that he's gone. They just sailed past all that and let go of a guy who had the type of season from a stats and wins standpoint that only the really good QBs have (and was seemingly built in a lab to run KOC's offense).
I'm not questioning moving on, I'm questioning everything that led up to them being in this position in the first place.
With the exception of rural Wisconsin, 1st round QBs play in their first season. JJMC missed his entire rookie year, but spent it in meetings every day, watching how pros review film (their own and opponents'). He had VR with go-pro film from Darnold's helmet. He then had a full offseason with the same HC/play-caller/offence. He also had a pretty damned advantageous roster around him. Most 1st round QBs are in much worse situations.
Certainly, if JJMC had been a 4 year starter with 1500 attempts, he would have been drafted either higher or lower. Evaluating players always requires some projection, and the lack of college experience was baked into JJMC's being the 5th QB taken. But, once drafted there is no way for him to get more snaps without. . .getting more snaps. Running the scout team every week doesn't teach a QB his own (or any) offence, or how to execute in a live setting.
We knew long before this week that JJMC is entitled, egotistical and immature. No other QB has publicly bestowed a nickname on himself before actually accomplishing anything. I can't think of another instance of a QB prematurely celebrating and then publicly sharing that he was expressly coached not to do it, but did so anyway.
The fact that JJMC is a massive bust doesn't change the validity of drafting him and then playing him. With the benefit of retrospective knowledge, keeping Darnold and trading JJMC was the much better option. Yet, given the information available at the various decision points, KAM's/KOC's choices re: JJMC were reasonable.
As for the Wilfs, there is absolutely nothing to criticize here. If anything, kudos to them for understanding a sunk cost and not vetoing this trade.
Apologies for the brevity.
My 2 cents.
One wonders how it would have gone if he did not hurt his knee.// That said he clearly has not progressed (Wentz clearly deserved to be QB2)
Bummed we only got a fifth for him though clearly there were no higher offers.
I doubt Keasley had any qualms about pulling the trigger
Thankfully all this "when will JJ start" blabber ends.
Wish him well in the future. Some guys take more time to develop
Looking back at it, if they were in win now mode why pick the guy with few college reps? A cheaper version of Trey Lance.
We’re moving on… good.
A DN subscriber said McCarthy has a "preternatural lack of maturity". When he was backslapping and cheerleading during a game Vikes were losing pretty rotten due mostly to McCarthy making bad mistakes, I can't imagine the vets on the team appreciated him being all college rah rah instead of a professional. He has not made that transition. Personality traits such as certainty that one knows better than everybody else what is right and wrong, typically do not change. I was all for the pick, thought we were in for a great ride after that Bears comeback game. Nope. Like, what kind of player decides to play without telling the team he has a bad throwing hand?
There is a big difference between developing and refining. KOC has shown he can refine a veteran, he has not shown that he can develop a QB.
Similar issue with Zimmer the alleged CB whisperer at least in MN. Every CB drafted during his tenure turned bust. The Vikings drafted 3 first round cbs and one 2nd round cb during his tenure, and none of them became star players. Zimmer was not a cb whisperer.
KOC has yet to show that he can develop a QB, so perhaps people should quit calling him a qb whisperer. He is good at reclamation projects with veterans though.
It actually boggles my mind how many picks were wasted on the CB position during Zimmer's tenure.
“Organizations fail quarterbacks more often than quarterbacks fail organizations. I would know.” - Kevin O’Connell.
Ok, I may have added that last line…
There has to be a line of demarcation though, right? If Bill Walsh and Don Coryell adopted and raised McVay from birth, he still couldn't turn a guy with one arm into an effective QB. Some (actually, very nearly all) college players are simply not capable of being NFL starting QBs, and that fact cannot be the organization's responsibility.
If you look at JJMC and see him as being on the org's fault side of that line, well, I might suggest a new oculist, but opinions are always subjective.
I was just repeating KOC’s phrase, the one he used to pat himself on the back when Sam Darnold was winning him games.
I don’t actually agree with the sentiment!
Fair enough. Agreed that KOC would/should like a mulligan on that line. A better comment would have been that the context around a QB has a massive impact on how he performs, especially early in his career.
I am halfway through the emergency pod and had an appointment so I wasn’t able to finish. But I will later today. So maybe you covered this on the pod, but who do you think pulled the trigger on this deal? OConnell or Teasly?
I like the kid, I hope he has a long career and stays healthy. We will never know what soured the relationship between McCarthy and O’Connell. Perhaps there’s only room for one JJ on a team.
"McCarthy would tell O’Connell how things should be done" - crazy.
McCarthy was babied his whole life and is entitled. He don’t get it.
Hopefully Murray turns out or we are going to waste two seasons of elite defense.
McCarthy over Darnold or Rodgers was a crime. Go Kyler go or someone else might get fired.
I will always maintain he was/is a 3rd round talent overdrafted because of need and his position.
I wasn’t happy with his selection on draft night, glad he’s gone and hope Murray remembers how to QB.
You can’t make the club in the tub and you can’t make sense of nonsense. Two cliches that fit him perfectly. He may “get it” but we don’t have the six years it’ll take. He’s in his third year and awful as ever.
This is better for everyone involved. Now he can distract the Giants and all the WFAN radio callers who don't like Jameis. Let's go Vikes!
Edit: WFAN radio jocks are already starting JJ in a few weeks. https://x.com/WFAN660/status/2104647331001851975/video/1
Very disappointing they give up on a 23 year old 10th overall pick after 10 game for a day 3 pick. Another 1st round pick wasted. 😡