Weird how "risky" this move feels given that that the guy is a future HOFer who is only 31. I'm guessing Peterson will play at least pretty well in Zimmer's scheme and, if they're lucky, teach a thing or two to the young guys. But if he's really fallen off a cliff and/or doesn't fit Zim's defense--one or the other or both is totally possible--you just blew a huge stack of free agent money and did not improve your CB room, nor are you likely to do so with fresh talent. Oddly, because Patrick Peterson has of course been incredible in the NFL, I'd be more hyped if they had announced "We signed Mackensie Alexander for $3 million; he'll play slot and we're going to put Gladney on the outside." Feels like, odds are, you get more out of a move like that.
Agree Geoff. The reason it feels risky is probably because if he plays like last year for that price, it's going to be a pretty big miss. If Alexander re-signed, you could have very accurately predicted what he'd bring. Appreciate the comments. I don't always get a chance to respond but I always read them and enjoy seeing what you have to say
It saves money, though in that scenario the 1st round pick is being moved instead of keeping him where he was drafted to play, and nickel is a starter. It's possible that the front office are all idiots and wildly missed what Gladney should do/where, or that he's so good he could play anywhere, but those are fairly remote. Good young players need to be put in the position to succeed.
Otherwise, it's hard to have a bad 1 year* deal. I would have preferred to wait out the market a bit more, but I much prefer this deal to, e.g., what Darby, Griffin or Willie Jackson signed for.
*assuming that's what it is; reports ain't exactly replete with veracity this time of year
Zimmer was clear earlier that he thought the offense did very well and that the defense cost them...hope these signings help! Wonder how large of expense to the offense they come though...
What utter tripe. Zimmer and Spielman are in full on "Operation: Preserve our Jobs".
As someone who defended Mike Zimmer for years, I sincerely believe that the man should be fired. Another top-heavy roster that over-spends on the defensive side of the ball.
My larger issue is continuing to spend future cap dollars now. Well-run teams pay as they go. Maybe there is an argument for doing so a bit more this year as the cap is depressed and new tv and gaming deals will render it moot, but this problem has been festering for a while.
Your critique is really of ownership though, isn't it? Colbert/Tomlin know that they have job security and act accordingly. Ditto Ozzie-DeCosta/Harbaugh. If Zimmer/Spielman are being told (directly or indirectly) they need a divisional round win or they're out, and they act on that mandate, where does the fault actually lie?
It's a very fair point that you make, Andrew. I've wondered aloud in past comments about my immense curiosity about the conversations between Zimmer/Spielman and the Wilfs. Have they put Zimmer and/or Spielman on notice? Or are all four men impatient and unwilling to build this team up in a sensible, patient and responsible way? Is Spielman a voice of reason (as some have claimed) but outranked by Zimmer and the Wilfs?
Wish I knew. I wish even more that the Wilfs understood the folly of building a team in this manner under the currently exhibited philosophies. An offense that's a player or two and a philosophical change away from being great and every spare dime is being spent on defensive players of questionable fit.
What sucks is the last part is the easiest of fixes. The '99 or '00 Broncos used this offence, had Brian effin' Griese at QB and completed 100 balls *each* to Rod Smith and Eddie McCaffrey--at a time when QBs could be hit from head to toes while CBs hand-checked and safeties went for kill shots. It would be really, really easy to increase Jefferson's, Thielen's and Smith's targets without changing anything in the offence. Frankly, that kind of shift would do more for 2021 success (and beyond) than anything else that happens this offseason.
The spending/roster building philosophy starts at the top, and it certainly doesn't seem as if Spielman/Zimmer are being incentivized to choose sustainability.
Matthew, I'm impressed by how fast you pulled that together; a lot of great info and analysis.
I'm not thrilled with Peterson for all the reasons you laid out, but completely get the need for a veteran CB and hope he has a Rhodes-like rebirth. Stated plenty of times before, Zimmer's defense and the learning curve required to be good in it doesn't work out too well with rookies (but I still want Moehrig at Safety!)
Third and fourth round CBs that fit the system include our own Benjamin St-Juste, Trill Williams, and Keith Taylor and if you follow PFF's Mike Renner closely (and I know you do), Ty Gowan and Rachad Wildgoose. Maybe Rick finangles a second round pick and ends up with Tyson Campbell even. I'd be happy with any of these guys knowing they don't have to step in and be day one starters like Gladney and Dantzler had to last year. So $10M is the going rate for peace of mind.
Thank you Rob... I get excited like everyone else when there's a big move and cant wait to write about it. Good point on the learning curve. With you on the veteran corner point...they definitely needed one. Whether this is the right one, we'll see. I appreciate all your comments in here and enjoy reading them.
Do we think shoring up the defense early in FA is a way to get some, i'm not sure if it's leverage, bargaining chips to push into the pile to entice Hunter to stay? If the net result of a couple splashy moves is enough to convince Hunter to stay, rather than going after a number of smaller signings, then I can get behind it. I'm sure this sentiment will age like milk after Kirks third sack-fumble though.
Great article and comments. I'm ok with Peterson simply because he can be another coach for young CBs, they certainly aren't going to learn from Hughes. I'm still trying to get past Tomlinson signing. I don't get the hype about him. Not saying he's terrible but it seems Minnesota pumping him up more than reality suggests. He graded 75.1 which is not stellar, its above average and he only played an average of 23 snaps a game which means he sat most of the 3rd downs and likely was rotational never having to face the number of snaps he'll need to face with the Vikings at 3-tech. I'm not necessarily against the pick. I just don't understand it. I think your statements about Zimmer hell bound to stop the run are spot on but are we really expecting a significant push up the middle?
If its 'save our jobs', I agree with Finchy, then we've already lost. Hill has not proven himself, Bradburry needs to improve and will require good guard play to improve. Cleveland could improve to slightly below average and we have no left guard... doesn't bode well for BB, an no LT. There's good reason for trepidation.
So is this Zimmer getting everything he wants? Does this therefore increase the pressure on him to get to the playoffs this season - if he gets all the toys he wants and doesn’t deliver, will he be gone for 2022?
I know you didn't pick the right player, but I can't believe you haven't flexed how right you were in saying that the next move would be to spend decent-big money on a CB on your pod with CC!
Weird how "risky" this move feels given that that the guy is a future HOFer who is only 31. I'm guessing Peterson will play at least pretty well in Zimmer's scheme and, if they're lucky, teach a thing or two to the young guys. But if he's really fallen off a cliff and/or doesn't fit Zim's defense--one or the other or both is totally possible--you just blew a huge stack of free agent money and did not improve your CB room, nor are you likely to do so with fresh talent. Oddly, because Patrick Peterson has of course been incredible in the NFL, I'd be more hyped if they had announced "We signed Mackensie Alexander for $3 million; he'll play slot and we're going to put Gladney on the outside." Feels like, odds are, you get more out of a move like that.
Agree Geoff. The reason it feels risky is probably because if he plays like last year for that price, it's going to be a pretty big miss. If Alexander re-signed, you could have very accurately predicted what he'd bring. Appreciate the comments. I don't always get a chance to respond but I always read them and enjoy seeing what you have to say
It saves money, though in that scenario the 1st round pick is being moved instead of keeping him where he was drafted to play, and nickel is a starter. It's possible that the front office are all idiots and wildly missed what Gladney should do/where, or that he's so good he could play anywhere, but those are fairly remote. Good young players need to be put in the position to succeed.
Otherwise, it's hard to have a bad 1 year* deal. I would have preferred to wait out the market a bit more, but I much prefer this deal to, e.g., what Darby, Griffin or Willie Jackson signed for.
*assuming that's what it is; reports ain't exactly replete with veracity this time of year
Hopefully he will be a good mentor to the young players
Zimmer was clear earlier that he thought the offense did very well and that the defense cost them...hope these signings help! Wonder how large of expense to the offense they come though...
Fantastic article Mathew was very meaty
What utter tripe. Zimmer and Spielman are in full on "Operation: Preserve our Jobs".
As someone who defended Mike Zimmer for years, I sincerely believe that the man should be fired. Another top-heavy roster that over-spends on the defensive side of the ball.
it does feel very much like going all-in and that's how it will be judged... it does have a job-saving feel
My larger issue is continuing to spend future cap dollars now. Well-run teams pay as they go. Maybe there is an argument for doing so a bit more this year as the cap is depressed and new tv and gaming deals will render it moot, but this problem has been festering for a while.
Your critique is really of ownership though, isn't it? Colbert/Tomlin know that they have job security and act accordingly. Ditto Ozzie-DeCosta/Harbaugh. If Zimmer/Spielman are being told (directly or indirectly) they need a divisional round win or they're out, and they act on that mandate, where does the fault actually lie?
It's a very fair point that you make, Andrew. I've wondered aloud in past comments about my immense curiosity about the conversations between Zimmer/Spielman and the Wilfs. Have they put Zimmer and/or Spielman on notice? Or are all four men impatient and unwilling to build this team up in a sensible, patient and responsible way? Is Spielman a voice of reason (as some have claimed) but outranked by Zimmer and the Wilfs?
Wish I knew. I wish even more that the Wilfs understood the folly of building a team in this manner under the currently exhibited philosophies. An offense that's a player or two and a philosophical change away from being great and every spare dime is being spent on defensive players of questionable fit.
What sucks is the last part is the easiest of fixes. The '99 or '00 Broncos used this offence, had Brian effin' Griese at QB and completed 100 balls *each* to Rod Smith and Eddie McCaffrey--at a time when QBs could be hit from head to toes while CBs hand-checked and safeties went for kill shots. It would be really, really easy to increase Jefferson's, Thielen's and Smith's targets without changing anything in the offence. Frankly, that kind of shift would do more for 2021 success (and beyond) than anything else that happens this offseason.
The spending/roster building philosophy starts at the top, and it certainly doesn't seem as if Spielman/Zimmer are being incentivized to choose sustainability.
AMEN. This comment should be chisled in stone and dropped on Mike Zimmer's desk.
I'm in the same boat with Zimmer, defended him for years. Now I think he should go coach Rugby.
Matthew, I'm impressed by how fast you pulled that together; a lot of great info and analysis.
I'm not thrilled with Peterson for all the reasons you laid out, but completely get the need for a veteran CB and hope he has a Rhodes-like rebirth. Stated plenty of times before, Zimmer's defense and the learning curve required to be good in it doesn't work out too well with rookies (but I still want Moehrig at Safety!)
Third and fourth round CBs that fit the system include our own Benjamin St-Juste, Trill Williams, and Keith Taylor and if you follow PFF's Mike Renner closely (and I know you do), Ty Gowan and Rachad Wildgoose. Maybe Rick finangles a second round pick and ends up with Tyson Campbell even. I'd be happy with any of these guys knowing they don't have to step in and be day one starters like Gladney and Dantzler had to last year. So $10M is the going rate for peace of mind.
Thank you Rob... I get excited like everyone else when there's a big move and cant wait to write about it. Good point on the learning curve. With you on the veteran corner point...they definitely needed one. Whether this is the right one, we'll see. I appreciate all your comments in here and enjoy reading them.
My "instant reaction": YESSSSS!!!!! My reaction after reading this article. . . . "well okay, I guess he could be good for us."
Do we think shoring up the defense early in FA is a way to get some, i'm not sure if it's leverage, bargaining chips to push into the pile to entice Hunter to stay? If the net result of a couple splashy moves is enough to convince Hunter to stay, rather than going after a number of smaller signings, then I can get behind it. I'm sure this sentiment will age like milk after Kirks third sack-fumble though.
Great article and comments. I'm ok with Peterson simply because he can be another coach for young CBs, they certainly aren't going to learn from Hughes. I'm still trying to get past Tomlinson signing. I don't get the hype about him. Not saying he's terrible but it seems Minnesota pumping him up more than reality suggests. He graded 75.1 which is not stellar, its above average and he only played an average of 23 snaps a game which means he sat most of the 3rd downs and likely was rotational never having to face the number of snaps he'll need to face with the Vikings at 3-tech. I'm not necessarily against the pick. I just don't understand it. I think your statements about Zimmer hell bound to stop the run are spot on but are we really expecting a significant push up the middle?
If its 'save our jobs', I agree with Finchy, then we've already lost. Hill has not proven himself, Bradburry needs to improve and will require good guard play to improve. Cleveland could improve to slightly below average and we have no left guard... doesn't bode well for BB, an no LT. There's good reason for trepidation.
So is this Zimmer getting everything he wants? Does this therefore increase the pressure on him to get to the playoffs this season - if he gets all the toys he wants and doesn’t deliver, will he be gone for 2022?
Mike Zimmer is going down swinging,
Could Peterson play safety?
Still need at least one FA offensive lineman
Definitely on the OL. I don't think Peterson plays safety. I think he'll be asked to be their shutdown guy
I know you didn't pick the right player, but I can't believe you haven't flexed how right you were in saying that the next move would be to spend decent-big money on a CB on your pod with CC!
Guessing cornerback with Mike Zimmer as head coach was a safe bet haha