Friday mailbag: A modern offense?

Vikings fans are intrigued by the sudden jolt of exciting offensive play

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By Matthew Coller

Happy Friday everyone! We’ve got ourselves a big old football contest on Sunday so let’s dive into what’s on Vikings fans’ minds…

Kevin via email: I was thinking on this article about how important it is for them to be able to operate out of 3 wide. I recall how the Peterson years they just couldn’t do that effectively. How important do you think this is and do you think they’d run as much 3wide if Irv was healthy?

Allow me to sound like a Football Man for a moment: It’s important to be multiple. In past years, they did a lot of effective things with two tight ends. They’d force the other team to put their extra linebackers on the field and then exploit mismatches with Irv Smith Jr. and run play-action. But what often happened was they’d get to third down and throw out Laquon Treadwell or Aldrick Robinson or Chad Beebe and the opposing defense would more or less say, “that’s fine, beat us with them.” Now with KJ Osborn in the mix, they have a guy who can be a legitimate threat in those spots. I think they’re also seeing the impact of the receiver motioning and having a nickel corner on the field when it comes to running too. They might be the only team outside of SF that uses a 3WR set with a fullback in the game. That’s a lot for defenses to worry about. All this is a long way of saying that, yes, when Smith Jr. returns, assuming Osborn stays on this track, we’ll see them use the third receiver more often.

@JoshuaR_Smith Players' equipment has changed a lot in the past 30 years. So what is your best metaphor for the size of Kevin Mack's shoulder pads circa 1990?

It’s like carrying around a huge case of CDs vs. having all the music on your iPhone. Those pads probably had the opposite effect from what they were intended. Instead of keeping guys safer, they turned into battering rams for guys who just threw their bodies into linebackers. I talked to LeRoy Hoard about it on the podcast awhile back and he said that the way he played took a serious toll on his body. He also told a funny story about being in a bar and having a guy next to him start talking about LeRoy Hoard without even realizing that LeRoy was right next to him. The guy expected LeRoy to be way bigger because of how he looked in pads.

Joe via email: Why do you think we don’t see the Vikings come up in conversations about Richard Sherman? 

As much as the Vikings have flashed in the last two weeks, they aren’t the type of team right now that anybody joins when they’re chasing a Super Bowl. Considering how Bashaud Beeland has started out and the issues with Cam Dantzler, I’m sure it would have been at least a conversation but Sherman would have to want to come to Minnesota.

@DarrickMoren question - why is it that if Mahomes or Brady get pressured and have a bad game its "he had no help" but when Cousins has bad protection its "he cant win games" and when he has good protection and plays like a top 5 qb people say "well anyone can play with good protection" ??

I’ve only ever heard that said about Mahomes and Brady when they came up short in Super Bowls.

It feels like there’s a little cottage industry on the internet of people who yell at other people about Kirk Cousins all day every day, so maybe you’re just seeing that in your Twitter timeline rather than finding reasonable discussions and analysis about his play.

By the way, Brady hasn’t been sacked 40 times since 2013. Cousins has been sacked 41, 40 and 39 times in three of the last four years. Mahomes career high in sacks is 26. He had 22 last year with a bad O-line. Also, when you play “like a top-five QB” sometimes and under only certain circumstances, that’s not the same as playing like a top-five QB all the time like Brady and Mahomes.

@paulvonasek Should we have kept Jayron Kearse? And is there a better video game theme song than Madden 2000 by Ludacris?

I thought Kearse was a good player when he was here but there just seemed to be some personality conflicts and then the off-field issue really put him in Zimmer’s dog house. They always wanted a “big nickel” type of thing with him and he made a number of nice plays out of that look in 2018 but it never seemed to fully materialize. With his unique size for the position, I’m not terribly surprised that he’s becoming something elsewhere. Whether he keeps it up…

@jvangelder If Vikings lose and end up like 2-8 at some point, does zimmer get fired and let Klint be interim, or do wilfs let zim finish out season

Whoa, all the way to 2-8! Usually these only go a few weeks out when we’re talking about firing everybody. If the Vikings get to the bye week at 1-5 or 2-4, we’re having this conversation. At 2-8, the wheels would have had to have come off so badly that they’d need to make a change. At the same time, Kirk Cousins would have to get hurt in order for things to go that bad. If we’re talking philosophically speaking, I think it’s better to give a younger coach a shot at being interim head coach than to just smoke the dead man walking the minute the season ends. If the Vikings beat the Browns, the job-status conversation quiets significantly.

@KrisKUSTRADIO What is the bigger regret: Passing on Trevon Diggs, Antonio Winfield Jr or using Cord Patterson correctly

Patterson could have been a cool weapon but the gap between Trevon Diggs, Antoine Winfield Jr. and Jeff Gladney is an ocean wide. They should have serious regrets about both of those guys. Considering the value of a shutdown and/or playmaking corner in Zimmer’s defense, I’d lean toward Diggs. What I’d want to know is whether they passed on him because of the situation with Stefon. I’m sure they’d say no but….

@OldNorse I was worried after week 1 but now think Kubiak has what it takes to run a successful modern offense. What are the odds he gets poached away and we’re hiring a new OC for the 6th straight year?

It is remarkable how many people have coached Kirk Cousins and then got hired to be head coaches elsewhere. I’m not sure Klint has quite the same background as a Stefanski, who was here for more than a decade before getting his chance. It’s possible he’d get that “young exciting offensive mind” tag but probably more experience is required, even if he ends up having a great year overall. One thing I’d say is that someone like Klint has a better chance to succeed as a future HC because of his demeanor than a lot of the sales people who get those jobs.

@SchielBrian It feels like GMs and coaches should ignore the rants and desires of fans. …do they ignore fanbases or do emotional, unaccountable fans have influence?

I don’t believe teams should ignore their fan bases. How many Purple Insider subscribers knew that the Vikings needed to focus on better pass blocking guards? How many wondered about the Anthony Barr contract? How many wanted an effective WR3 or a more pass-focused offense? Some fans are crazy, yes, but most these days are really well informed. The old saying “if you listen to fans you’ll be sitting with them,” is antiquated thinking. I’m not saying they should do everything fans want but it’s not a bad idea to comb through thoughts of the people who care most about the team and spend a lot of time thinking about it. I recall one of the Twins’ brass saying they got a trade idea from a random fan on Twitter. And no matter how much they say it doesn’t matter, tell me that after a full 65k fans boos the team off the field. There are times, though, that the fans want everything to be changed the minute it doesn’t work and sometimes staying the course is the right thing to do.

@NsportsfanM Concerned about the Vikings ability to stop the run. What do they need to do to force Mayfield to win it for the Browns?

It probably depends most on the offense. The Seahawks were running over the Vikings last week and then ended up with 20 yards or whatever in the second half. That’s because they were playing from behind. If you get up 14 points, how many teams are going to keep plowing away with their running back? Not many. Scoring early has a chance to take the Browns out of their game.

@DShepeck NFL blitz 2000. You taking Broncos or Vikings?

Picking the Vikings on any game during the Daunte era is a good play, especially NFL2K for Dreamcast but the Broncos on Blitz are bananas. Elway, Terrell Davis, Shannon Sharpe, Rod Smith. That lineup was absolutely unstoppable. Not quite Madden 04 Falcons to the point where you make a rule that nobody can use Michael Vick but the Broncos were tough.

@DanielVroman2 The atmosphere at the games this year is translating so much better on tv with fans in the stands. What has changed for you all as reporters and what remains different in these times?

Totally agree. The fake crowd noise was brutal. It’s been a massive change in the right direction for reporters. We can work in our media room, have in-person press conferences, stand on the sidelines at training camp, attend the beginning of practice and go to post-game press conferences in person. Oh, yes, the food is back too. The only thing that’s different is that we can’t be in the locker room. I miss that part. Hopefully that returns next year.

@Aoki5Chuck If you had to start a franchise with one QB the Browns started before Baker, who would it be?

Well, give me DeShone Kizer so I can go 0-16 and then draft the next guy. If I wasn’t allowed to do that, I’d probably take Derek Anderson because he had at least one good year. I actually always felt that Tim Couch could have been a good quarterback. He was talented and started playing well once they got their team together a little but injuries really ruined that guy. Kelly Holcomb was gutsy too. I’d take that guy any day. Maybe Seneca Wallace would have been good in 2021?

@mark_gsd Why doesn’t the NFL have the technology to have a light come on when the ball crosses the goal line. No guess work.

It feels like there should be some way to better determine where the ball is spotted and whether it crossed the goal line, huh. Overall refereeing seems to be leaving some technology on the table. The only thing I can say is that the NFL moves slowly on everything and maybe someday we’ll get there.

Thomas H. via email: Have you learned of any recent changes in Covid vaccinations on the team? On TV at least I haven’t seen Kirk wearing a mask on the sideline. Maybe the cameras just avoid those shots, but I have seen Thielen wearing his.

I’ve gotten this question a few times and I don’t have a great answer. I looked into last year’s rules about masks on the sideline and it said that if someone was “getting ready to go in the game” they could have a helmet on and mask off. I suppose you could argue that the QB always has to be ready to go in the game? That’s the best I can do.

Thomas B. via email: Do you think there's anyone on the current coaching staff that could someday become a head coach elsewhere making Vikings fans regret they weren't made the HC here? Thinking along the lines of Dungy, Tomlin, Billick (got a SB!) and now Stefanski getting looked at as a potential long-time coach that is finding success elsewhere. Could Young Kubiak or Andre Patterson be the next in a seemingly endless line? Keenan McCardell someday? 

Considering Klint’s age and what we’ve seen so far, that definitely puts him on the map. Who knows if it will sustain but if you’re an OC under 40 whose offense is putting up points, you’ve got a shot. I’m not sure McCardell is really the head coach type. He appears to love being a receiver’s coach.

@MichaelMoers "How many days has it been since anyone has mentioned Wyatt Davis' name?" That's gotta be a good sign, right?

Oli Udoh has been solid. At some point, offensive linemen always get banged up and I’m sure we’ll see whether it’s Dakota Dozier or Wyatt Davis who gets that call. Udoh might end up being proof that having exact size specifications for positions isn’t really the way to go. It appears smart on their part to play the “best five.” It’ll also be a stroke of good luck considering they moved him right before camp. But it’s only been three weeks so we’ll see how he matches up against better competition down the line. For now, Davis is just depth.

@SamRoot43 What are a couple fun bold predictions for the game against the Browns? I'll do one first. Jordan Berry will record a punt inside the 5, and account for a first down or TD. With 2 teams who know each other so well, it feels like a Special Teams kind of week

Yeah I could see some special teams tomfoolery happening. This is a Kitchen Sink game where these teams pull out all the stops. If we’re picking really random things to predict, how about a tipped pass interception in the end zone or a random rule that nobody’s ever heard of somehow coming into play? Maybe someone has that Leon Lett thing happen.

@KAAAAAHN_tk421 It seems like Zim has adjusted his approach to player psychology (defending Joseph after week 2, continued film reviews with Kirk, etc). Do you agree, and what do you think led him to do so?

Well, let’s remember that Cousins is playing well and cutting Joseph wouldn’t do any good right now so there wouldn’t have been any point in MF’ing him publicly. He also backed Dan Bailey after he struggled at times. I do think Zimmer knows his defense is not going to rank No. 1 and win all the games by themselves, so he needs Cousins to succeed — badly. After this season, who knows where it all goes, but for now there’s no other way to win except getting behind his QB. By the way, he never really trashed Cousins until the vax thing. He’d always say “Kirk is a good quarterback” and talk about how they needed to help him. Zimmer’s never gone the Case Keenum route with Kirk.

@tad_fundermann Who wins this weekend? And why will it be the Browns by 14+?

I don’t think it’s going to be Browns by more than 14 but I will pick the Browns. I’m not any better at picking games than anyone else, so who knows, I just tend to lean toward the team that has the advantage in the trenches when it comes to facing the Vikings. The familiarity part makes me feel like it’ll be close though.

@rk2022 how surprised are you that everyone of the 1st round quarterback's have struggled. In fairness to Jones it's hard to succeed getting sacked 11 times in 3 games.

I’m surprised how much they’ve struggled but not surprised that none of the first rounders have jumped off to crazy blazing hot starts.

Some research for you… Since 2010, 30 rookie QBs have attempted at least 300 passes in their debut season. The guys who were instantly really good (Dak, Wilson, Herbert, Mayfield) continued to be good with the exception of RG3. After that, it’s totally hit or miss. Marcus Mariota is 6th of 30 in QB rating whereas Andrew Luck is 21st. EJ Manuel, Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky are all ahead of Derek Carr, Luck, Ryan Tannehill and Josh Allen. No surprise, the bottom guys all turned out terrible i.e. Josh Rosen, DeShone Kizer, Blaine Gabbert, Geno Smith.

@KyeBaxter Any comments on Vigil's play? It seems like he has been pretty good. Especially for a guy who wasn't a core kinda player coming in. Am I just overvaluing the splash plays and not seeing the bigger picture with him?

Sure, he’s been solid. Some folks might use his play as proof that Barr was overpaid and that wouldn’t be an insane argument. If you’re going to have weaknesses as a linebacker, you have to make up for those with splash plays. He’s done that and proven when he gets an opportunity to make a difference he can. I don’t see him being the overarching presence that Barr is but he can clearly do the job. If he’s the No. 3, you feel good about that.

@chedzhead1 If you had to choose the most “freak of nature” athlete in the NFL that you’ve ever seen in person, who is it?

Aside from Danielle Hunter, I’d say Julio Jones…. who actually looks like Danielle Hunter only as a receiver. When he walks out on the field, it looks like one of the Monstars in Space Jam. If you were wondering, Shaun Hill is the least “freak of nature” athlete I’ve seen in person.

@smccullough5 Who wins the game and what are the standings in the NFC North after this week?

I’ll go with the Packers being 3-1, Vikings 1-3, Bears 1-3 and Lions 1-3. I’m feeling a Lions win against the reeling Bears and the Packers should beat Pittsburgh. Ben Roethlisberger looks worse than 2015 Peyton Manning. He looks worse than Charlie Frye, in fact.

@smccullough5 Who's the biggest surprise player, good and bad, on the team so far this year?

It’s either Udoh or Osborn for the biggest good surprise. The Vikings needed some later-round picks to emerge and they have so far. On the bad side, Breeland. He’s mostly been a solid NFL corner but he just looks banged up. Maybe Jordan Berry for the good side? It’s been a lot of what we expected so far.

@jasnyder123 Better game: NFL Blitz or MLB Slugfest? Also, how bad has Dantlzer been in the offseason/practice? Feel he can't be worse than Breeland so far this season (although I am cautious after clamming for Samia last year and we all know how that turned out).

Blitz is legendary. The arcade style works better for football, in my humble sports gamer-y opinion. Dantzler really struggled during camp and the preseason. Zimmer is always going to default to trusting the veteran player first. As much as Dantzler had some good games last year, there were others in which he struggled mightily. And the attitude and special teams things are real. You’re not going to run a guy out there who won’t give you everything he’s got on ‘teams and you’re sure not going to reward trying to tweet your way back into the lineup. However, with this week’s injury report, they might need him.

@ATKing53632390 I've seen people say that in 2017, the Vikings started 2-2 and finished 13-3. Wasn't their defense top 5 that season? Seems unrealistic but my question is, if that were to happen this season, would it be due to the offense being top 5 or the defense being average? Both?

Not only was their defense top five, it was No. 1. They also started 2-2-1 in 2018 and went 8-7-1, so I’m not sure that 2-2 ever quite tells us which direction a team is going to go. It was after the Chicago win to go 3-2 that the 2017 team got hot but it was in the third quarter of the season that the 2018 team showed us that they weren’t really up to the task. If the Vikings have a top five offense, they probably only have to be average to be a very good team. We’ve seen a lot of teams recently ride great offenses into the playoffs even if their defenses were flawed. But every team to make the Super Bowl since 2016 has had a top five scoring offense, so that’s generally a prerequisite.

@benjackson0812 The first round rookie QBs are really struggling. Where they over hyped or are the environments they are playing in are just poor??

The environments are worse than poor. They’re horrific. All the offensive schemes are a mess except for Mac Jones, who’s shown some good and some bad. But Chicago, NYJ and Jacksonville are the worst of the worst in the NFL in terms of making life easier on their rookies. I’d also say that rookie years tend to tell us so little about who somebody is going to be as a QB long term. It’s pretty rare that we know right away one way or the other, partly because those teams are very bad.

@DisgustingAct84 based on available evidence, Mike Zimmer seems to be far more of a QB whisperer than a CB whisperer. his film sessions with QBs seem to offer far more than his work with quality CBs.

They have been able to succeed at the QB position with Teddy, Case, Sam and Kirk, which is pretty unusual but I think it’s a product of having elite wide receivers and a coach who knows how to do things offensively that hurt defenses i.e. run/play-action combos. They made great decisions at OC in 2017 and 2019 and appear to have done that again. The cornerback thing has been more of a string of bad luck. Rhodes and Waynes were good but Hughes got hurt repeatedly and Gladney was an off-field issue. Guys like Peterson and Breeland are who they are, there’s no magic coach wand to wave there.

@alstrain If Derek Carr is the pick instead of Teddy in 2014, how do you think the Vikings fortunes would have differed? Do they make a serious run in 2015? Make the super bowl in 2017? Be more competitive than making the playoffs every other year?

Decent chance of making the Super Bowl in 2017 and making the playoffs every other year, yes. Though the version of Carr we’re seeing now was not the version that was starting for the Raiders throughout his entire career. His confidence and aggression have changed significantly over the last two seasons now that he’s comfortable with Gruden. It’ll always be one of those things Vikings fans wonder about though… add it to the very large pile.

@alltimegreat28 Odds A. Barr finally plays?

Probably another week after this and I’d guess that he’s not playing every single snap but everything is trending toward him being back in the mix soon.

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